I recently wrote a newsletter discussing the
situation that many women are clitorally dependant. I
mentioned that I teach men how to give their woman her
first vaginal orgasm. I received some interesting
emails following that newsletter…
***EMAIL from Skeptic:
In your article: “Why Vibrators Are Bad” you wrote:
“If you ever expect her to come with you in
intercourse from penetration alone, you must stay away
from her clitoris, and you must awaken her vagina.”
David, are you listening to what you are saying here?
How about…
“If you ever expect him to come with you during
massaging his scrotum, you must stay away from the glans
of his penis, and you must awaken his balls.”
Are you really a proponent of Freud? Sounds like it
to me.
>>>MY COMMENTS:
I understand what you are saying in your analogy. As
for Freud, I have not studied him.
But let’s talk homologous tissue. The scrotum is
homologous to the labia, not the vagina. The adult male
does not have homologous tissue to the vagina.
What has been your experience with giving women
orgasms? Have they all been clitoral? Have women been
non-responsive to vaginal stimulation?
***Skeptic:
Seeing you are so familiar with the homology of men
and women’s genitals that I am sure you are well aware
of the fact that the vagina does not have any pressure
sensitive nerve endings.
Yes, my experience is that all orgasm is clitorally
based. IF a woman is engorged then this tissue can
press against the inner structure of the clitoris
including the legs and the nerves connected, through
which a woman can experience and orgasm from fucking
alone.
However, I don’t see any benefit in having the goal
to wean a woman from direct clitoral stimulation,
because the whole concept is male/fuck oriented which
has done nothing but limit the experience of orgasm for
men and women.
Freud was the guy who introduced the myth of vaginal
orgasm, from which our society has not recovered yet.
>>>MY COMMENTS:
I understand everything you are saying.
It is true that the legs of the clitoris extend up
into either side of the front of the vagina. Stimulating
that can be very pleasurable for some woman. Especially
at the 1 o’clock and 11 o’clock position of the opening
of the vagina.
I have heard quotes of Freud. He said that clitoral
orgasms were “immature” and vaginal orgasms were
“mature”. It is true that women usually have their
first orgasm clitorally, and at a fairly young age, and
women are usually older when they have their first
vaginal orgasm. But calling them “immature” and
“mature” is not going to help matters.
He said that women have penis envy. I disagree. I
think that women know what they’d do if they had one for
a night, and I think women like mens’ penises, but women
do not want to have a penis, or balls. Women like being
women, and they like men being men.
He also said that he never could figure out what
women want. What does that say about his knowledge?
As for the whole concept of female vaginal orgasms in
intercourse being male/fuck oriented, it is true that
men are fuck oriented. (I expand the repertoire of my
clients.) And I have nothing against giving women
clitoral orgasms. They’re great, and I have a number of
techniques for making it spectacular.
But the whole concept of female vaginal orgasms in
intercourse is very much a female desire.
Women want to have vaginal orgasms in intercourse.
It is not being pushed on them. They do not desire it
because someone is telling them that they are less than
whole if they don’t; women simply want to have vaginal
orgasms in intercourse. For women, intercourse is the
pinnacle of intimacy. This is true for women who have
or don’t have orgasms in intercourse. For women, the
concept of simultaneous orgasms in intercourse is
nirvana.
It is not true that the vagina has no pressure
sensitive nerve endings. The vagina most certainly
does.
Let’s take another example: what about women who
cannot have orgasms at all, even from aggressive
vibrator stimulation of the clitoris? Would that say
that the clitoris has no pressure sensitive nerve
endings?
Let’s take another example: One of my clients can
give his girlfriend an orgasm by kissing his
girlfriend’s forehead. Another client by rubbing the
small of her back. Many of my clients by simply saying
“come now.” There are dozens of other examples. What
does that say? It says that female orgasm is all
mental.
The mental aspect of orgasm is easily proven. Take
any adult woman and bring her to an R rated stage
hypnosis show. 45 minutes into the show, the hypnotist
will tell the panel members to have an orgasm, and they
will, instantly, men and women. And they are real
orgasms.
I honestly don’t care if a female orgasm in
intercourse is caused by indirect stimulation of the
clitoris. I don’t care if massaging the deep spot
actually stimulates nerve fibers coming from the
clitoris. I don’t care if stimulating her anus to
orgasm is somehow indirectly related to the clitoris. I
doubt it, but it doesn’t matter. The important thing is
that she have an orgasm in intercourse without having to
rub her clitoris.
I am not advocating some old beliefs. I have no
allegiance to any particular doctrine. I am simply
interested in results.
David
***Skeptic:
“Female orgasm is all mental.”
This is worse than I thought. Comforting to many
though I am sure. I withdraw any attempt to reason with
you regarding female orgasm.
>>>MY COMMENTS:
Well, I guess that conversation is over. It was fun.
Give women incredible vaginal orgasms,
David Shade
Some people will never get it. Oh well.
Judging by his comments, he should rename himself “cynic” not “skeptic”.
Mr. Shade, you really are operating on an entirely different level.
Thanks,
Harold
In response to “Skeptic” I would add that women who experience vaginal
orgasm on a regular basis might find clitoral orgasm second-rate.
My wife’s favorite position is on her back, legs up, with me on my side, kind of like
a T-bone position. Ironically, this is an excellent position for using my
hand to stimulate her clitoris while f*cking her but she doesn’t want it
touched. Using this position there is virtually no contact with her
clitoris, purely vaginal stimulation. And she has powerful orgasms.
As for the mental part, all I have to do is keep her close to the edge then
tell her I’m about to cum and say “Cum for me now, Baby” and she explodes.
Bullit
I think that saying “Female orgasm is all mental”, is a bit misleading. It implies the classic mind/body split, which science now knows to be false. It’s more accurate to say that “orgasm happens in the brain”. Stimulating nerve endings in the vagina, clitoris or wherever causes changes in the chemical (release of hormones) and electrical state of the brain. Other forms of communication – speaking, body language, etc – also cause changes in the brain.
It doesn’t surprise me in the least that it’s possible to make a woman come just by talking to her. According to the NLP model, you’re not “giving her an orgasm” you’re “eliciting the orgasm state”. When you cause her to come on command, that’s just what NLP calls an “anchor”. (A few years back, I was undergoing medical treatment that caused uncontrollable vomiting in me. Somehow I unconsciously associated the smell of the hospital cafeteria with the vomiting. When I went in each month for treatment, I’d walk past the cafeteria and start puking, even though the chemotherapy chemicals had been flushed from my system for a month. That’s another example of anchoring.)
“When you cause her to come on command, that’s just what NLP calls an “anchor”. ”
It’s also an undeniable demonstration that a woman wants a man who can and will lead her in sex. One who will command her. Or give her his permission to orgasm.:-)
We – both men and women – like simultaneous orgasm for biological reasons and therefore it’s instinctive to strive for it. Simultaneous orgasm increases the likelihood of pregnancy, a desireable thing if you’re trying to perpetuate the species.
You guys have got to see this article!! Scientists don’t have a clue! The only thing they got right was the very last few sentences in the article, “One clear finding is that each woman is different. This is one reason why women are so interesting.”.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19726444.100#comForm
I’ve included the article below but head to the address above for the debate surrounding this article among the uninitiated. Hilarity ensues.
Hey David why don’t you contact the scientist in this article and refer her to your research?
*********************************************************************************************
Ultrasound nails location of the elusive G spot
* 20 February 2008
* From New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
* Linda Geddes
Enlarge image
Spot the difference
Enlarge image
Spot the difference
FOR women, it is supposed to trigger one of the most intense orgasms imaginable, with waves of pleasure spreading out across the whole body. If the “G spot orgasm” seems semi-mythical, however, that’s because there has been scant evidence of its existence. Now for the first time gynaecological scans have revealed clear anatomical differences between women who claim to experience vaginal orgasms involving a G spot and those who don’t. It might mean that there is a G spot, after all. What’s more, a simple test could tell you if it’s time to give up the hunt, or if your partner just needs to try harder.
“For the first time it is possible to determine by a simple, rapid and inexpensive method if a woman has a G spot or not,” says Emmanuele Jannini at the University of L’Aquila in Italy, who carried out the research.
Jannini had already found biochemical markers relating to heightened sexual function in tissue between the vagina and urethra, where the G spot is said to be located. The markers include PDES – an enzyme that processes the nitric oxide responsible for triggering male erections (see New Scientist, 6 July 2002, p 23).
However, the team had been unable to link the presence of these markers to the ability to experience a vaginal orgasm – that is, an orgasm triggered by stimulation of the front vaginal wall without any simultaneous stimulation of the clitoris.
So Jannini’s team took a different approach, and used vaginal ultrasound to scan the entire urethrovaginal space – the area of tissue between the vagina and urethra thought to house the G spot (see Diagram). The team scanned nine women who said they had vaginal orgasms and 11 who said they didn’t. They found that tissue in the urethrovaginal space was thicker in the first group of women (Journal of Sexual Medicine, DOI: 10.1111/j.1743-6109.2007.00739.x). This means, says Jannini, that “women without any visible evidence of a G spot cannot have a vaginal orgasm”.
Other researchers question whether what Jannini says is the G spot is a distinct structure or the internal part of the clitoris. The urethrovaginal space is rich in blood vessels, glands, muscle fibres, nerves, and – in some women – a remnant of the embryological prostate called the Skene’s glands. Some researchers have suggested that the Skene’s glands are involved in triggering vaginal orgasms and, more controversially, enable a small number of women to ejaculate (see “Can women ejaculate or not?”).
“The authors found a thicker vaginal wall near the urethra and hypothesise this may be related to the presence of the controversial G spot,” says Tim Spector at St Thomas’ Hospital in London. “However, many other explanations are possible – such as the actual size of the clitoris, which, although not measured in this study – appears highly variable.”
Others challenge the notion that the G spot is missing in women who don’t experience orgasm. “It is an intriguing study, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that women who don’t experience orgasm don’t have any tissue there,” says Beverly Whipple at Rutger’s University School of Nursing in Newark, New Jersey, whose team coined the term “G spot” in 1981.
Whipple’s studies suggest that all women describe some degree of sensitivity in the area where the G spot should be. She says the next step is to ask women to stimulate themselves and then repeat the ultrasounds, as the area is believed to swell in response to physical pressure. This might reveal that all women have G spots.
Another possibility is that the women who experienced vaginal orgasms had learned to do so through practice, which has altered their anatomy, much like exercising a muscle makes it grow, says Leonore Tiefer, a psychiatrist at New York University School of Medicine. “The research would be much stronger if women without vaginal orgasm were taught how to have this experience and then repeated measurements were taken of the urethral-vaginal area,” she says. “Of course this would involve teaching their partners a great deal.” She would also have liked to see more extensive questioning of the women to fully understand their sexual practices.
Jannini accepts that there are limitations to his study. In particular, the small number of women he studied doesn’t allow him to say what proportion of all women have G spot – although it would seem that a large number do not.
This tentative conclusion is supported by previous questionnaire-based studies such as The Hite Report, which found that 70 per cent of women do not have orgasms through intercourse, but are able to experience orgasm easily by direct clitoral stimulation.
Studies of identical and non-identical twins also support the idea that there may be physiological differences between women who do and don’t experience vaginal orgasms. In 2005, Spector found that up to 45 per cent of the differences between women in their ability to reach orgasm could be explained by their genes (see New Scientist, 11 June 2005, p 6). “We know that genes are partly responsible for the variation in women’s responses and this study raises the possibility that local genital differences rather than purely genetic differences in brain responses or personality may be important,” says Spector.
Elisabeth Lloyd of Indiana University in Bloomington, and author of The Case of the Female Orgasm, agrees. “If Jannini’s correlation does hold true, it would help explain the fact that most women do not reliably have orgasm with intercourse,” she says.
Jannini is now planning larger studies to confirm his findings, and measure how many women have a G spot – if that is indeed what he has been measuring. Eventually, he says, ultrasound could be used to test whether a woman has a G spot or not.
If she does, it may even be possible to increase its size using testosterone, which both the clitoris and Skene’s glands can respond to. This could increase sexual responsiveness, but could be dangerous in women with normal testosterone levels. Jannini is running a trial in post-menopausal women and those who have experienced early menopause to see if testosterone treatment can increase the size of the G spot as measured by vaginal ultrasound.
Lloyd thinks Jannini’s findings could make it harder to promote the idea that women who find it difficult to orgasm are suffering from some kind of sexual dysfunction, as it suggests there are physiological differences between women. “The wide variability among women in their patterns of sexual response has made the pharmaceutical industry’s challenge all the greater,” she says. “If this research holds up, they would need to be very clear in marketing any product they eventually come up with.”
Those women who suspect they may not have a G spot need not despair. “They can still have a normal orgasm through stimulation of the clitoris,” Jannini says.
In fact, Jannini thinks his study should reassure women who have never experienced a vaginal orgasm that this is completely normal. “One clear finding is that each woman is different. This is one reason why women are so interesting.”
********************************************************************************************
i just bought your book secrets of female sexuality (it was kinda hard to get here in germany) and also read your foundations book. My problem is, after my exgirlfriend left me, iam highly depressed (since 10 months) and only doubt myself.
I have never given any woman an vaginal orgasm, and i think its due to my penis thinnes. its only 15,5-16cm long and the girth is 11,5 cm (4,5 inch around) . i also tried to find the deep spot but my middle finger is only 8,5 cm long. what can i do? should i never sleep with an woman again?
my friends tell me all the time to consolt an doc for my mental problems, cause i lost any joy in life. why should a woman need me when she can have crazy orgasms with a vibrator and not with me??
Valup,
So typical. Oh so typical.
I could send any of my top clients over there, and they would give her a spectacularly powerful vaginal orgasm, without even so much as touching her.
Get some new beliefs dude.
Give women incredible pleasure,
David Shade