Hello Reader. I get some very interesting emails. This time I would like you to answer an email. How would you reply to this guy? This is your chance to be the sexpert. Comment on what you would reply. Here’s the email…
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David,
I have a question for you and i was wondering if you could help me to figure this out.
I’ve been able to give my woman the most beatiful experiences in sex and I’m pretty sure that she feels fullfilled because i’ve given her all kinds of strong orgasms wether it is stimulating her physically or mentally so regarding that part i have no worries…
I’m writing you because one time i was talking with her about fantasies, you know, the fantasies that she might have to see if a could make them real and the thing is that she told me that she would like to do it with two guys in front of me, you know, me watching her having sex with other two men and this is why i’m writing you because it really hurted me, it really freaked me out just the tought of it and it made me angry the fact that she fantazies with that, so i’m writing you to see if you can help me to understand this, what is the reason of that and to see if she was real about this because when she saw that it made me angry she said she was joking, but i don’t think she was…I mean i can understand the fantasy of doing it with two guys at the same time, double penetration, i mean if a woman loves to have one cock inside wether it is in her pussy or her butt it is logical that she would love to have the two of them at the same time, i can understand that, but i just can’t figure out the reason of why she would love to do it in front of me, what kind of sick thing is that? Would she love to watch me get jealous, would she love to watch how i get when i watch her being taken by two guys? Would she love to hurt me that way? because i’ve heard that the whole fact of women cheating is more like a fantasy they all have, that they find pleasure in the act of making fun of their partner and not in the act of sex itself and that they would love to do it in front of their man.
I really hope you can help me to understand this because it’s driving me nuts and right now i don’t see her the way i used to be. I want to make clear that i don’t have any hang-ups on sex and i don’t judge it in any way, in other words i don’t have any kind of trouble with it and that’s why i’ve been able to satisfy her completely but i believe is just kind of logical that this whole situation affects me, i mean, no real man would like to see his woman being fucked by another man, specially by two and no real man would like that his woman finds pleasure in it. So David, please, help me to understand and please tell me the thruth, no matter what it is, i mean, don’t try to make it look good or fine, tell me whatever the truth is.
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Ok, there you have it. What would you write back to this guy? Write your advice in a comment on this post. I am going to moderate all the comments. As I read them, I will mark the ones that stay on topic for approval. By Sunday night, I will judge one comment as the winner. As the winner, your comment will be featured as an article on my blog, with my comments on why I selected it.
And the guy who sent in the letter will receive a complimentary half hour consultation with me in which I will share your advice with him.
So now’s your chance! Enter your comment below.
Give Women Incredible Pleasure,
David Shade
P.S. My response can be found in PART 2 of this thread here:
She Wants Him To Watch Her Have Sex With 2 Guys Part II
a single, four-letter word: N-E-X-T ! Friend, you are obviously rejecting this as something fun for you, and if she insists, she isn’t respecting you. Move on. You;ll live, she’ll live, life goes on. Congratulations on having principles.
First of all, you start by saying you were talking about a fantasy of her’s she could make real. Key word “fantasy”. You shouldn’t be hurt, because after all, you did ask and she felt confident enough in your relationship to open up and tell you. Coming from a woman’s point of view, that can be very difficult sometimes. She may have said she wanted you to watch because that way you could be with her when her “fantasy” becomes a reality. To share in her sexuality. Again, she was trusting enough in you and confident in your relationship to share that with you. There are men who like to watch their women with other men. I know it may sound sick to you, but I think it happens more than you realize. Lots of men fantasize about being with 2 women and when it comes right down to it, can’t.
Because she says she would like it to be real, doesn’t necessarily mean she does. In her mind she may want it real. This is something you can do for her under hypnosis. Lead her into the fact that she is with 2 men and you are watching her. Tell her how beautiful she looks. That this is a side of your lovemaking that you can’t see when the 2 of you are together. Instead of getting mad or upset with her, making her not want to share her thoughts with you when you ask, discuss it with her. Calm and rational. Let her know how you feel about
it. Ask her if she would be willing to experiment with it under hypnosis. Just remember…..in all of this, at the moment, it is just a “fantasy”. And she trusted and respected you and your relationship enough to share that with you. Show her the same trust as she showed you and I’m sure the 2 of you will come to some sort of reasonable solution.
You gonna be hurt more by her – she was testing you – for some reason she has this fantasy – maybe the sex has become boring to her, she doesn’t want to say so, or, she can’t ‘define’ it – fact is she hurted you, now she knows your weak spot and sooner or later she will make her fantasy happen – obviously you will not be watching (she would have lost total respect for you if you would have gone through with her fantasy – just ask her how she would feel if it were you in front of her with two women….), but she will confess it, in a fight, to hurt you more, or you will find out yourself, by ‘accident’….
If she has ‘fantasies’ like this (to whatever extent), something is wrong – might be you, might be her, or the two of you. From now on it is downhill: (lack of) trust will become an issue, she will avoid direct questions etc. The fix? Run! You deserve better.
Time to dump her. Although a lot of women fantasize about such things not all of them do. Knowing what you know now its time to raise your standards another notch or two. Besides its a much easier solution than trying to work it out and in the long run you’ll be glad you did.
I agree totally with hottieblonde. The thing is, you don’t seem to realise how good you have it. I understand, it is painful and goes against our nature as men to want women we are fucking to be fucked by other men. Its obvious a lot of trust has already being built and she’s adventurous. The more fantasies you make real for her, the more powerful your sexual relationship will become. If she wants you to watch her being fucked by two men, make sure of a number of things. For a start, get something out of it in return, have one of your fantasies brought to life in return. They men she decides to be fucked by, make sure these are guys you know but don’t see too often. The last thing you want is to contract an STD or let dirtbags into your home. Perhaps, the act could take place outside of your homes. Basically, keep everything as safe and anonymous as possible. The less people knowing about it, the better.
You’ll be amazed how sexual women are and the amount of fantasies they have held secret within their skulls. I recommend only experimenting with hypnosis when the relationship has grown further. Don’t be so freaked out about it and enjoy the rollercoaster ride!!
I just think you are insecure about it. I would never judge anyone’s fantasy. Who are you to say what’s sick and what’s not?
Jealousy is actually a strong feeling wich you can transform into something else. I get turned on by seeing/hearing others have sex. Infact, a girl I was attracted too fucked my brother in the room beside me. At first I got a little jealous, then I began tapping the feeling and relaxing my whole body, then I got turned on..and so on…extremely turned on…and them my breathing and heart began to accelerate fast…And after a little while I had my first mental orgasm that was pulsating throught my whole body and it lasted forever… I tried too stop after a while cause it was so intense. but it just kept going. I managed to stop it after a while somehow..and I’m a man. I thought only women could have all this fancy long orgasm stuff:p
So learn to embrace your feelings it may come something good out of it!
Tell her with straight face that you will be very excited to watch “your little bratty slut” getting fucked by two guys and that you also will jerk off and get a blowjob by another woman while watching from the side and your girlfriend moaning will make you even more excited and after that you will want her even more.Seeing the natural woman in your girlfriend expressing her sexuality in a way that is dictated by her fantasy is a very beautiful thing because it’s real and natural and it turns you so on that you can’t wait seeing it happen.You and the other guys also might talk dirty to her and after the fuck you can caress her and sweettalk to her. watch her reaction and calibrate accordingly.talk with her about her sexuality, fantasies etc. if nothing else you can tell her at the end that you are “just joking”
David,
I’m sure you noticed this man’s liberal use of “i” to refer to himself. I wonder whether he always does this or whether he’s so freaked out by this revelation that he’s temporarily wallowing in low self-esteem. (I suspect he always does it.)
I think his woman’s fantasy is a common one. And, of course, there are several possible reasons why she shared this fantasy with him.
First, she almost certainly is testing him – consciously or unconsciously – to see how secure he is in his sexuality and their relationship.
Second, maybe she does want to “hurt” him. There is not enough information in the email to determine if this might in fact be the case, but I would advise him to weigh this possibility carefully. It just might be possible that he did not choose wisely after all.
Third, maybe she thought that this guy was exceptional and she feels secure enough with him to share her deepest fantasies. She must know that only an exceptional man would ever consider actually going through with this; maybe she thinks (thought) that he was the one?
Fourth, she wants to show him how naughty and sl.tty she can be for him and she would really get off on the fact that he’s watching her be a total sl.t. IOW, she wants to perform for him, and his going through with it would really open her up to him.
It is pretty apparent from the email that the guy is on the verge of a breakdown. If his woman has noticed the extent to which he’s freaking out about this, then his concerns may be a moot point. She may lose respect for him and the relationship could effectively be over already (except for the shouting… lol!)
That old advice about being careful what you wish for because you might get it certainly applies here. His woman has opened a Pandora’s box and he can’t handle what’s come out of it. And, there’s no putting anything back into it. It seems to me that he’s put himself into a lose-lose situation. If he sweeps this under the rug, his woman may (will?) lose respect for him. If he goes through with it under his present frame of mind, then he will forever be haunted by the “fact” that his woman “betrayed” him in this way, and the relationship will almost certainly end sooner rather than later. The third option, that he embrace his woman’s fantasy and actively participate in it, seems highly unlikely.
The guy needs to have a frank conversation with his woman to find out what she really wants. He also needs to express his concerns and gauge her response. He’s crossed a Rubicon and his relationship will never be the same.
Personally I have fantasized about watching my wife being taken by two other guys, so I don’t think her fantasy is unrealistic. I would find viewing her handling two guys tremendously arousing and would love to be able to provide her with a final, ultimate pleasure session after she is satiated by the others. I could think of no finer way to end a night of love making.
Lee
Some of the preceding comments are pretty good. But first off, there’s no such word as “hurted.” She hurt you. Okay?
Actually, she didn’t even hurt you, since it’s all in your head and you are responsible for your own thinking. You’re hurting yourself. Let go of the negative, jealous kind of thinking and instead open up to the idea of sharing. Sex is a beautiful thing and if you can open up to sharing her fantasy with her then you can take this to the next level. Here’s a test: If your thinking makes you feel closed and restricted, and focused on objects (eg., thinking of your girlfriend as a possession) then you are engaged in negative thought and you need to let that go.
The truth is, even if you are married, either one of you may leave at any time and if you can recognize that fact, and the corrollary which is that people only stay because they want to, then you begin to see her continued presence as an expression of love and you will see yourself as blessed.
The other thing is, if you indulge her fantasy, then she’ll be more open to indulging yours, whatever that may be. You wanna fuck two girls in front of her? You wanna fuck two girls together with her? Whatever your fantasy is, don’t expect her to indulge it if you can’t open up to indulge hers.
Finally, if you’d like me to be one of the guys that fucks your wife in front of you, let me know. Okay, that was a joke. But not really.
The trouble with all of this is that it sounds easily like it could go either way.
Okay, here’s my advice. I say there’s no right or wrong answer here, except by how you feel. You say you satisfy her sexually. You say it would bother you to go through with this. I didn’t see anywhere in your email where she said she expects you to actually do this, just that it is a fantasy. So you might not want to do it…
On the other hand…..A guy who shows no jealousy towards other guys around his girlfriend drives her up the wall-so you just might succeed in driving her even more wilder! This sounds like she is launching a major S**T test-the real test is not in whether or not you say yes or no but how you react to the whole thing…….
There is a saying: “a wise husband (or in this case boyfriend) knows to possess his woman while allowing her her freedom.†So if you do it, don’t under any circumstances show the slightest bit of jealousy. Just enjoy it and use it to your advantage! She’s attractive to other men. So as long as she ends up doing it with you (and loving it) go for it! Just make damn sure she reciprocates by allowing you to do it with two women while SHE watches. And make sure she only watches, not participates. That is key (otherwise it could ruin the relationship). And make sure YOU pick the women.
Bottom line here, just say “yeah baby, sure, we can do that.†Then, outline the above conditions to her, stick by them and watch what happens. She might not even go through with it. And if she does, take it from there. Just remember the key is at all times to not show jealousy. Hope this helps.
First of all, I’m not sure if you’ve spent much time reading David’s newsletters, but you should definitely start to use an uppercase I when referring to yourself. That letter represents you in what you write, and the time taken to shift your pinky finger over a few centimeters is worth it, to show that you value how you represent yourself, at all times, in all mediums.
Next, as to your actual post: I’m going to assume that what you say about the relationship is true. That she’s pretty crazy about you, and that you give her multiple mind-blowing orgasms, using a variety of techniques. Essentially, that your sexual relationship is healthy. Now, some of your last words were to the effect that a ‘real man’ wouldn’t want to see his girl get fucked by someone else. This one, I’m not sure I can follow — ‘real man’ is a pretty broad definition. If you mean, “A man that feels possessive over his woman”, then I can understand it. But, well, I believe the definition should run closer to, “A man that has the knowledge, personal strength, and passionate desire to bring his girl to the absolute high of pleasure, and to explore the limits of her sexuality as an end unto itself”. Think about that for a second – Do you fuck her because you want her to experience incredible pleasure? Or do you do it because she’s yours, and that’s just what guys do with their girls?
You ask why it is that she said what she did, and the answer is very simple: Because she trusts you. She wasn’t baiting you, she wasn’t trying to play head games or get under your skin. To say that to your face, whilst honestly meaning it, took a lot of courage. She was aware of the possible effect it could have had on the relationship, and didn’t do it lightly. To be honest, your reaction showcases at least one place where you don’t have the level of self-esteem that you could (and should). So now, you’re left at a cross-roads: On the one hand, she has exposed some of her deepest desires to you, trusting in your personal strength and understanding of her sexuality (which you have proven time and again, I assume, or else she wouldn’t have asked). On the other, you’ve clearly gone a bit further in the rabbit-hole than you were ready for, forcing yourself to face this situation before you were ready. Regardless, remember this: You’ve shown her a world that she had heard about, but never experienced. When you did so, you convinced her that your dedication to her sexual needs was second to none, and now, when she allows herself to become vulnerable enough to tell you this deep desire, you’ve taken away the security and strength that you had promised her (through your actions) that you possessed. If you can’t change your understanding, if you can’t draw pleasure from watching her fulfill a fantasy, then that’s the way it is — but don’t hold it against her or hate her for it. You’re the one that brought her to this point.
Dear Concerned About Fantasies,
Let me begin with something you said in your first paragraph. “…I’m pretty sure that she feels fulfilled because I’ve given her all kinds of strong orgasms…â€
This tells me that you may be basing your assumption that she is fulfilled because you can make her have an orgasm? Now, because I don’t know her at all, you may be 100% correct and she is in fact quite fulfilled. But this is an opportunity for me to point out that you may want to open the lines of communication with her just a bit wider to make sure she is in fact enjoying all aspects of your sex life.
After reading your email a few times I extract the following:
-you are somewhat sensitive and can be prone to anger (as you stated yourself)
-she is concerned when she feels she has hurt your feelings, upset you or mad you angry
This is important to point out to you because she may not be totally satisfied with the sex but does not want to hurt you. The good thing is that you “are†sensitive and that means you want to please her.
You asked her about her fantasy, but yet, in the context that it was understood you would make her fantasy come true if you could? That’s a dangerous game to play unless you are willing to open your mind when you hear the other persons answer. Generally fantasies include things we think we could never do, and they often contain slightly deviant behaviors that we’d like to try for the sheer sexual excitement it would bring. Even you must have a fantasy of your own, that you haven’t done, that is exciting, different and in a strange way it excites you sexually to think about it? If you don’t you should, it’s good for the imagination and there is nothing wrong with fantasizing, and most times, nothing wrong with bringing a fantasy to life (as long as nobody gets hurt i.e. knife throwing in bed, fire, acrobatics off the Golden Gate Bridge naked) Keep it safe is what I’m saying.
When your girlfriend spoke of her fantasy of being with two men at the same time, while you watch, keep in mind a few things. She may not be wanting anal sex, she may really want two wonderful men all over her, touching her, kissing her, having sex with her, and generally making her feel like queen for the day (or night). If she can have multiple orgasms, we often need more than one man as one man, after ejaculation may be so tired, the other can now continue on for her 2nd or 3rd orgasm. Then again she may want double penetration…whatever it is, her fantasy about two men with you watching isn’t necessarily to hurt you, she may be fantasizing about having you see how desirable she is? She may want you to see other men so attracted to her that two of them are having sex with her, competing for her attention, kissing her, touching her.
This may stem from a subconscious concern she has that you don’t find her desirable? She may be the one with a slight self esteem issue because for some reason you may not be communicating clearly that you find her attractive. Just making her orgasm, whether it’s a deep screaming one, or a regular run of the mill one, may make her feel good physically, but you need to feed the emotional side of her also. [and if you didn’t already know, we are very emotional creatures, and we love sex]
Although I have not been in bed with two men, I have been in bed with a man and another woman. In fact, a girlfriend of mine and her boyfriend. I knew he was attracted to me, and she knew he fantasized about me. They got a Hotel room one evening. She called me to come and just hang out for a while, and we accidentally ended up all in the same bed. Because we were girlfriends, I was careful at first, not to touch him without some kind of sign from her that it would be ok. We decided to kiss as he laid on his back, we reached over him, we thought this would give him a thrill and we’d probably start laughing since we hadn’t ever kissed someone of the same sex before. Much to our surprise, we enjoyed it, we could see he did too, and it basically elevated the sexual excitement of the evening. Of course he attended to both of us and she watched as he made love to me, she kissed him during that time, and I did the same when he was with her.
At no time was she upset to see him with me as she and I would be kissing at times while he was with me. This was new for all of us and we got together several more times after that to make sure we liked it.
I’m telling you that because we could have easily switched places and had her with another man, or him with a woman we don’t know and it didn’t mean she was mad at him, or him at her, it added an exciting element to the otherwise normal sex life. So there is a chance your girlfriend is having a true fantasy about being with two men in front of you thinking this would excite you and her sexually.
A fantasy is usually just that, a fantasy. A wild exciting sexual encounter you wouldn’t ordinarily have on a Wednesday night after work. She was just expressing her thoughts, her desire to inject a bit of spice into your sex life which doesn’t mean she isn’t enjoying it already. What I would suggest is that you pay close attention to her next time, is she really satisfied or is she trying to make you think she is satisfied because she doesn’t want to hurt you?
Rachel
No, no, no. You asked for her fantasies — she trusted you enough to tell you. It’s possible (even likely) that in her mind, two things are happening here:
a) She would very much like to be fucked by two guys. And why not? Wouldn’t you love to have sex with two women? Don’t hold that against her… after all, you asked for her fantasies, and she felt secure enough to tell you that, without feeling like she was being judged (which you went and did — bad move).
b) She may have fantasized about you having sex with another woman or women, and had that turn her on very much, then simply imagined that if such a thing turned her on so much, then it would turn you on, too. I actually had this same experience with a girlfriend: she told me she would be very excited to watch me fuck another woman — she’d fantasized about it. She asked me if I’d like to watch her fuck another guy, and seemed genuinely surprised when I said it wasn’t a fantasy of mine.
Men are evolutionarily more jealous and protective, I believe — it’s hardwired in us. So don’t kick yourself too hard for it. But realize that in this case, you don’t have to be jealous. Your woman wants to please you, not hurt you, most likely. The fact that she’d love to be taken by two men is just an expression of a healthy and natural sex drive (in fact, a woman having sex with multiple partners increases the motility of men’s sperm, and creates more competition, so that may also be to some extent hardwired into her!).
You may not be ready to actually see her “in action” with two other men. The men I know who have done this have a profound and selfless love for their partners that not everyone can easily acheive. However, you’ve dug yourself a deep hole, here. You asked for her fantasies without being ready to accept them. If you want to salvage the situation, here’s what I’d say you have to do:
1) Get over the jealousy bit. Revel in the fact that you’re with a rapaciously sexual woman. If you don’t square with the fact that she’s probably more savagely horny than you ever imagined, you’re pretty much fucked. You ABSOLUTELY MUST stay cool, and if you come off as even a little bit of the hurt baby that you do in the letter, forget it — you’re toast.
2) DO NOT try to shut down her fantasy, or convice her that it’s bad or wrong or any stupid shit like that. I know you want to. Don’t even try. Instead, work with it. Keep it in play, as it were. Explore other fantasies as well. Others have suggested hypnosis, which is a good idea. If she pushes to make it real, I might say something like, “You’re not ready for that… yet.” Of course it’s really YOU that’s not ready… but she’ll be very likely to do just about any damned thing you suggest if she thinks it will get her closer to “ready” — and of course you should make all those dirty nasty things very pleasurable for her. Use a dildo and DP her while narrating a fantasy where she’s fucking two strangers, while you watch. You can be one of the strangers; it doesn’t matter… Just don’t try to shut her down, by any means. Use this to rev her up, instead!
3) Someday, when you’re ready, when you’ve really accepted her deep sexual nature, maybe a special occasion like her birthday… make it happen for her (if you’ve been cultivating her sexuality properly, you’ll have done all kinds of other stuff that was plenty of fun for you already). Find a couple of good guys and have them fuck the daylights out of her, while you watch. Gaze deep into her eyes and contact that primal extasy that she’s feeling. Talk to her the whole time. If you do this with manly strength and love, and are in charge the whole time, I guarantee she will not lose any respect for you. Instead, she will worship you. By, in essence, giving her away, you actually prove how much she is truly YOURS.
I agree with SinisterUrge on the issues of safety and anonymity, but NOT on the bartering. Never make sexual acts into a trade of “I’ll do this for you if you do this for me.” Lead, and give generously, and she will return in kind without being held to a “deal”.
If I were in your shoes I would turn the tables in your favor.I would talk to her about her doing to girls with strap on instead of 2 guys.Flex your power instead of showing your weak side,If you’re going to talk to a woman about fantasies you need to be open about it,just like you would exspect het to be with you.It’s a fantasy lighten
up.I fantisize about getting tag teamed by Chelsea,and Hillary Clinton but that doesn’t mean it will happen.
You need ot be the one with the power the one in control.Stop letting your womanly feeling get the best of you and be a the man and while you’re pooring the cock to her
give her somthing new to fantisise about be in control she’s got you by the balls,as long as she feels the tention in you shes the one in control never let a woman take control they can get that from the gay guy at work.Take control be the man with out being a dick about it.Chick like to be controled worse case she’ll bail and you;ll hook up with another gal but at least you woun’t watch her bang 2 dudes
Ok nice case study.
Lets break it down.
You give your sweet lady beautiful sexual experiences, you stimulate her physically and emotionally and you’re pretty sure she feels fulfilled.
And sharing each others most intimate fantasies, albeit solely verbally, is part of that deep emotional connection. The both of you sharing those fantasies and the fact that she opened up that way is a proof of your deep level of mutual trust.
Why don’t you see her sharing this fantasy with you as an accomplishment? Do you realise you succeeded – thanks to your wonderful sexual experiences- at openening her up in a sexual, emotional and even spiritual way? You woke up the natural woman in her. She wasn’t afraid to share her most “dark” side with you! Isn’t that wonderful?
If both of you did not have that level of trust, she wouldn’t have shared that. Albeit just not to get labeled as a slut.
And now comes “the problem” (beware the quotation marks): your response to her fantasy. You had a negative emotional reaction to it (anger, jealousy or whatever negative emotion).
And that’s why she replied that it was only a joke. She saw you were hurt and tried to compensate (calibrate) it. She didn’t want to hurt you more.
Quote:
“i just can’t figure out the reason of why she would love to do it in front of me, what kind of sick thing is that? Would she love to watch me get jealous, would she love to watch how i get when i watch her being taken by two guys? Would she love to hurt me that way? because i’ve heard that the whole fact of women cheating is more like a fantasy they all have, that they find pleasure in the act of making fun of their partner and not in the act of sex itself and that they would love to do it in front of their man.”
Ok. It’s obvious your reasoning arises from your negative emotional state. As you know thoughts influence emotions and the other way around.
Where did that negative emotional reaction and those negative thoughts come from? Why do you think she is trying to make you jealous and/ or to hurt you?
Is it because of your own personal insecurities? Or is it because your relationship isn’t really that solid and she is really “testing” you? Or is it both.For you to find out…
How and when to find out?
Wait untill your negative emotions have faded away and ask her straight on, without blaming her, without judging her, why she would like you to watch her while being roasted on the spit.
If necessary tell her how you felt without shame. The fact you felt/feel bad is ok. Don’t make the mistake by being ashamed and/or trying to hide how you felt. Just tell her, share your emotions with her, just as you share fantasies, stories and wonderful experiences. In a human and adult way…
Good relationships are not only built on sharing good experiences, but also on sharing (preferably less often) negative experiences without blaming, but with understanding.
And to finish, you’re reaction is a good indication of your attitude towards that fantasy. Tell her you appreciate it a lot she shared it with you, but that you are not appealed by that fantasy.
“Darling, thanks for sharing that fantasy, but no thanks!” Period!!! No discussion. No justification. No but. Just NO. And then make love to her as you never did before.
And a bonus because of your very interesting question.
You don’t need to make her fantasy real “real”. You can make it real verbally. Bring her in trance before or during the sweet hot monkey love and whisper in her ear while making love to her: “Oh baby… What if I were sitting over there… And watching you… While you feel (subliminal command) that attractive man going deep (thrust deep while pronouncing the word deep) inside of you… And making love to you… Just the way you like it… Nice and deep… Isn’t it, baby… And that other man… Filling you with… That hard… And burning… Desire… (slide gently a finger in her ass while pronouncing “hard… And burning… Desire…” in the rythm of your words). And I’m sure you could complete the rest of the fantasy with your rich and dirty imagination. (wink).
So during your conversation with her, listen very well to the information she gives you and use that information “against her”, to make it more real, while you realise her fantasy verbally…
Kisses and hugs.
Fantasies are just that: fantasies. You asked your woman a frank question, she confided in you and gave you a frank answer. Perhaps you were not ready for the truth. A question like that deserves an honest, from the heart answer. She gave that to you and you are now hurt. I assume that having sex with two men has been a fantasy of hers for quite a while, perhaps since the days she physiologically became sexual. I think it was stated above that your inclusion in the scenario was a loving gesture. She wanted to share, and you shot her down. I am quite sure that you, yourself, had fantasies prior to meeting this woman, were you honest with her, as well? I think that if you are not ready to hear everything, than you are not ready to ask the question. It should not be you who drops her because her fantasy is uncomfortable for you; it is she who should dump you for not being there to support her as a true lover should.
-Wing
I’m polyamorous and this is a common topic in discussions.
I know that some have said that since you were discussing fantasies that it’s ok, and it is but those that suggest you make it happen are not checking the fact that most men, regardless of what some of them might think, are not going to be able to mentally handle watching 2 guys fuck their woman. Period. Call it sperm competition, or simple jealousy, either way very few guys want it to happen in the least. Even most who think they are cool with such a thing soon discover once in the situation that they are less than cool with the idea. If you have any misgivings, go with them because they will be intensified a million fold in said situation. I speak from experience and let’s just leave it at that.
Look at it this way, there are swingers clubs where people are supposed to be free from jealousy and in a “like minded environment” but they aren’t remotely free of any jealousy, they simply repress it due to peer pressure. Seriously they are laughable in how many will join a club, have an experience, decide it absolutely isn’t for them, leave the club and then promptly breakup. If they can’t pull it off without jealousy, you should expect it in droves.
And don’t let the people who say “when you grow up sexually you’ll be able to handle this” make you feel as though you are a lesser being for not wanting what she wants. That is, IMNSHO, complete bullshit. The problem in many of our circles is that we’re encouraged to have an open mind but with a fully open mind we are limited in the types of opinions we can form since disliking something implies that we have “less” of an open mind, at least to those who think we HAVE to have an open mind about every little thing. Let me tell you that it is perfectly fine for you to not want what she wants and for you to say “no” to that particular fantasy if you think you would dislike such a thing.
Someone mentioned using hypnosis to “make it real” for her which might be fine but at the same time it might be like poisoning the well and only lead her to want it to be real even more thereby undermining everything you’ve worked for. You need to consider this.
Alright, to be honest, there are a couple of different, interrelated issues here. I’ll address them one at a time, in no particular order.
First off, it seems that you have some self-esteem issues. I could be wrong, though. As yourself these questions, and if you answer yes to them, then you need some self-esteem. Do you find yourself getting jealous when your girlfriend hangs out with male friends of hers? Do you get angry or jealous if you notice another guy checking her out in public? Do you constantly worry that she’s cheating on you? If this is the case, then there’s nothing that I can do other than to suggest you pick up a book on self-esteem and repeat “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and gosh darnit, people like me!” 10,000 times. Sorry, but watching re-runs of SNL and listening to Al Franken do it doesn’t count.
Next, you realize that she might just be joking with you like she says she is. Women often times joke about things like that to test men’s reactions. This may be a subconscious thing. I can tell you for certain though, that you failed that test. What you should have done, if you’re against the idea (which you obviously are), is to be firm and put your foot down. You needed to be the man in the relationship and say “That’s not going to happen. That’s all there is to it.”. Either that, or you needed to be enthusiastically for it. There are three ways to face a test like that. With complete confidence in yourself and complete trust and faith in your relationship, with complete confidence in yourself and a firm announcement of your decision as the man in the relationship, or like a wuss. You picked the third. I hate to tell you, but your lady lost some respect for you on that one.
You also need to address the possibility that she does have that fantasy. As I’m certain that David will confirm, a fantasy is just that, a fantasy. It doesn’t have to be realistic or rational. You don’t even have to want it to really happen. I have a fantasy of having a foursome with my girl, Angelina Jolie, and Brad Pitt. This doesn’t mean that it will, or that I want it to happen.
There is, however, only one course of action for you. You need to be completely forward and honest with your girlfriend. You need to talk to her, tell her that seeing her with other men isn’t something you’re interested in, and that if she insists, the relationship will be over. Do NOT however, appear needy or insecure when you do this. Being honest, forward, and secure in yourself while telling her that it’s not going to happen will gain you back the respect that you lost by handling the situation poorly. Being insecure, needy, and shaky while you do this will lose you even more respect.
The bottom line is that you’re a man, and you need to act like one.
David & all,
There are two issues here, one is him, the other is her.
1. Him: It seems he is still not very confident and not having a 100% understanding of your material and of female sexuality. Question: What if he first saw this woman fucking two guys, without having fucked her prior to this? Won’t any guy on this planet feel a terrible desire to make love with that woman? I can assure you yes!!!! It is designed in the primarily male sexuality. So we, as men, have to go past our social conditionning too, and do what our ancestors did, and assume what are we designed as real men!
2. Her: Any woman has such fantesy and behavioural tendencies, so this doesn’t mean all male species has to be insecure. A woman who admits it and reveals is a very special one, which has to be kept, pleased, given wonderful love and charmed, whatever it should happen in the future or not. She wants to bring this to him, as a sign of trust, respect and he has to be proud of it. I instead would have organized this special event for her, with two of my mates, and this won’t change anything in their relationship, but more, it should have it reinforced.
Conclusion: Guys, first you have to fully understand the meaning of David’s worlds and only then apply the techniques he preaches. Doing “Mechanical” love mastery runs to such weak and hilarious examples of a male approach.
There are a lot of excellent and insightful comments above; the guy in question would do well to read all of these, IMHO.
Now, on to *my* advice. My first impression from reading the email is that this is a guy whose emotions are not completely under his control. He uses the lowercase “i” as a pronoun which seems to indicate lower self-esteem (as others have noted). Many of his sentences are run-on sentences, and there are quite a few misspellings. He also mentions not having sexual hangups or judging people, yet he has done *exactly* both of these. Based on all of this, I would infer that although this guy understands “orgasm techniques,” he is missing out on some of the principal benefits of hypnosis, which are self-improvement, and constructing a stable emotional life for yourself, BEFORE adding women into the picture.
From what he has described, there are two possible explanations, and he will have to look at his relationship in general to determine which is his situation:
1) The most probable scenario (since the guy has low self-esteem) is that his woman also has low self-esteem, and wants to use a threesome with other men to make him jealous. One way to test for this is to ask if she would have problems with him having sex with other women while she watches. If she’s fine with that, and he eventually becomes OK with her having a threesome with other men as well, then they can join the swinging community. If he isn’t OK with this, then he should probably move on, since his negative reaction to her fantasy will NOT be good for their sexual relationship.
In the future, he can fix this issue by selecting women who have higher self-esteem, and who are Daddy’s girls. He can actively help matters by leading more, treating women with respect, demanding respect, and getting rid of women who don’t meet the criteria.
2) It is also possible that her fantasy is not based on low self-esteem, but rather is completely genuine. If she has no objection to watching him have sex with two other women, then this is the more likely explanation. In that case, he will just have to be more receptive to possible answers, before he ask questions in the future. Again, his negative reaction is not good for the sexual relationship, but if he can work through his issues, and become comfortable with fulfilling her fantasy, then it might add the spark back to the relationship.
There are a couple of other thoughts he might try out, especially if he wasn’t her first lover:
Has she had sex with another guy (before the relationship started)?
Has she had sex with a second, different guy (before the relationship started)?
If she had sex with these same guys in a threesome (before the relationship), would you think any less of a relationship with her now?
If she has sex with two different guys (in the future), would that make the current relationship any less enjoyable, *right now*?
Hopefully, if the relationship is healthy in all other respects, these questions will enable the guy to move beyond his hangups by recognizing the transient and arbitrary nature of most relationships, as well as why a threesome with other men would pose no threat to him.
David Amigo,
“DONT ASK A QUESTION IF YOU ALREADY DONT KNOW THE ANSWER”
– Johnny Cochran – Famous Defenese Attorney (RIP)
“YOU CAN`T HANDLE THE TRUTH!”
- Col. Jessup (Jack Nicholson) to Lt. Kaffee (Tom Cruise) A Few Good Men
Either one of the aforementioned quotes applies to you in this case Dave. You just can not ask your girlfriend deep intimate questions like that and then be hurt by her comments, whatever they are, she is refreshing and sincere in her answer and you should be happy to have that healthy attitude from her in your relationship as opposed as a repressed and timid lady putting a major block in the growth of your healthy sex life.
Now, In reading your story, there are 2 issue conflicts as you relate them that as an amigo I just have to confront…first of all, you dont say that SHE has told you youve given her mind blowing orgasms …… as far as YOUR concerned…… there is no problem there.
You have to deal with the fact Dave that maybe your just a stud in your own mind and that your lady maybe wants you to watch her with 2 guys so YOU CAN LEARN SOMETHING. Could be amigo, you have to be open to this.
Second……if in fact you are giving this lady mind blowing sexual pleasure……….NO WAY are you going to feel insecure, hurt or out of your mind from worry from the fact that she just merely mentioned a FANTASY. With all the lousy lays out there, no way she is crazy enough to let go of a truly FANTASTIC LOVER.
Therefore Im going to conlcude from these 2 basic contradictions that YOU are the issue here and not her, and since I dont have any detail on her feelings, I can only deal with the issue from your side of the story.
Lets start with issue 1….you need to COMUNICATE in more detail with your lady…like nearly all women, they get sexualy turned on by the “thought process” and sorroundings in the sexual setting, her visual sense is not a sensual key as much as her sense of smell and thought when it comes to arousal, women love to “hear” what your going to do to them way before you actualy do it….so learn to communicate with her in what is obviously a very sharp sense for her…….HER EROTIC MIND…..encourage her to keep opening up her fantasy world to you as opposed to being horrified, or as a result, you make her inhibited and afraid to say things to you in intimate settings.
Try “making love” to her way before you all get together by leaving sexy notes, sending her hot text messages, call her at the office and tell her exactly how your going to make love to her that night when she gets home, send her flowers, buy her sexy lengerie with hot notes as to how she will look in it…….amplify the experience by getting creative yourself…….write her a couple of chapters of HOT EROTIC stories, describing both of your very obvious physical traits and invent a new erotic name for each of you, make the scene in a island resort, an enchanted castle, whatever scene that will stoke passion, get explicit, get hot, just be creative and have fun with it Dave, I guarantee you that she will be anxiously looking forward to your next chapter to se “whats gonna happen to her next”……….and then obviously dont just write about………make her fantasy that YOU invented real…….dress up like the character you write about, buy her a wig to fit that color hair, get her that trampy outfit her character wears, take her to that place you write about…..DO the very things you write about, use that name you invented and call her by that name……both of you get into the experience.
The thing here Dave is that YOU get into the fantasy world WITH her, and then she wont be asking that you watch her……shell be asking that YOU DO IT.
Ok lets go to Issue 2……….I believe that by the way your lady described her fantasy to you Dave, that she probaly is telling you SHE WANTS TO BE DOMINATED AND IS SEEKING YOUR APPROVAL BY HAVING YOU “WATCH HER”….so complete her wish……..her subconscious wish….DOMINATE HER……Dave…take your “new invented lady” to a hotel…..place several lit candles all over the room, turn off the lights,…. light up erotic incense, blind fold her….out on some new age music….giver a hot oil body massage…dominate her by tying her up on the bed and bang her where ever she wants as hard as she wants…….and……having hidden this new toy so she hasn seen it yet…….USE A DILDO……..a 20 inch banger …………and as you are penetrating her vaginaly……gently but firmly penetrate her with the DILDO analy…….talk dirty to her as you do it..tell her 2 big studs are banging her wildly……while she is still blindfolded change positions……….have her felate you while you penetrate her with vaginaly with the DILDO (use a condom on the Dildo and change them after each use to avoid infections amigo)……….keep talking dirty to her…..and just keep doing various position changes all night long, take polaroid pictures of her in these positions with the DILDO in her… making sure to hit theG spot as well as the clitoris…….get her to ejaculate over and over again till the sheets are sopping wet…..do all that you can imagine to make her truly live those wild orgasms you talk about, do this until she literaly is begging you to stop……and then decide if you want to keep dominating her or give her a break………but by all means DOMINATE HER.
When you believe shes had enough…gently pull her to you and hold her, kiss her lovingly, reassure her with tender words, look at the picitures together and relive the moments……let her KNOW whos is in control……Im sure that you will get some very nice and unexpected love back from her and IF she truly THOUGHT about a twosome with some guys…I dont believe she will truly want to go through with it in real life because YOU DAVE have basicaly fulfilled her fantasy of being dominated…………all with in the safe confines of your personal and intimate relationship………..and using your vibrant imagination keep writting new love scenes for you both to play out, encourage her to author some scenes, the possibilities are endless.
Dave truth be told it takes an EXTREMELY unique couple to share their loving mate with other people as she describes, if you dont love her and she is just a loving sex partner, go ahead, let her do her thing and you ask for her to fulfill your own fantasy in real life, however if both of you are truly in emotional love and hope to stay that way, time and again acting out these fantasies with other people in your bed usualy kills the romantic and loyal feelings that are healtthy in any relationship.
Make sure you use the techniques found in the newsletters and make sure you are with no DOUBT truly pleasing your lady physicaly, emotionaly and spiritualy, as you do that, your own personal satisfaction, self esteem and confidence as a lover will know no bounds and a true loving relationship will bind both of you, with your EROTIC SECRETS, for as long as you both wish to stay in the relationship. Get started amigo, start writing your NEW WILD EROTIC life with your special lady.
I think you should calm down and look at this rationally. Everybody, including you, has their dark impulses and sexual fantasies that may seem perverse to others. The fact that she shared that fantasy with you shows that she has an immense amount of trust in and comfort with you. In an odd way, it was a high compliment for her to share something like that with you. Keep that in mind.
Also, while there are two guys present, from what I gather the fantasy focuses on you watching her. She didn’t say “my fantasy is to fuck two guys,” she said her fantasy was for you to watch her fuck two guys. So, while you might not appreciate your role in the fantasy, it does focus on you. As for what she’s getting out of you watching her do that, I can’t really say, but don’t jump to conclusions and think she is fantasizing about mocking you. I highly doubt that ever entered her mind.
You automatically jumped to that conclusion because you secretly fear losing her, fear being betrayed by her. You are locked into defensive thinking because deep down you expect people to disrespect you. In other words, you, my friend, have a confidence problem.
She’s not out to get you, she doesn’t want to leave or betray or cheat on you. She has a perverse fantasy, no more, no less. You have probably set yourself back with her by being judgmental, but you can recover in time.
Never speak of it again, and if she brings it up tell her that you overreacted and once you thought about it you understood it wasn’t about hurting you.
My view David, is that your writer has some insecurities as outlined by previous posters. His lady trusted him enough to share her fantasy with him and he has reacted in a very negative way. He immediately felt that she would subsequently reject him in favor of whoever these two lovers maybe. I think he needs to withdraw from this relationship and limit himself to women who will feel he’s superior to them…until such time as he can get his own act together. In the meantime, he can send me her name and phone number and I’ll be happy to help her live out her fantasies.
Several things are going on here.
First, it’s important that you think of her act of sharing this fantasy with you as a TEST. Women do this a lot, and there are good reasons to believe they are more or less hard-wired to do so. For the purposes of this discussion, it doesn’t really matter much whether she is testing you deliberately or more unconsciously. Either way this is a test of whether you are strong enough to deal with her fantasy and thus be the MAN she desires to lead her in to deeper explorations of her true self and her purest passions and at the same time protect her from harm. If she witnesses that sharing this fantasy with you upsets you, she has exposed a weakness, deliberately or not, that suggests on a deep level that you are not strong enough to deal with her as the woman she is in any given moment. Worse, it betrays that you are not strong enough to protect her in real physical emergency. If you cannot deal with her disclosure of a mere fantasy without falling apart in pain and shame, how can you protect her from real dangers, real threats to her well-being and survival? Note that whether you can really protect her in face of physical danger or not, the deepest parts of her brain are telling her you are weak and undependable. This will be a big turnoff for her. There has been a lot written about this concept by other authorities, so I don’t want to spend a lot of time dealing with it here. Suffice to say, that passing this TEST means not being knocked off balance, distressed, or otherwise losing your cool by this disclosure, which, by the way, you quite clearly have. And there is no doubt whatsoever that she has picked up on your distress, even if you thought you were hiding it.
Second, it’s important for you to realize that ALL tests that women throw your way are magnificient opportunities for you. In this instance, she has given you a great deal of information about how to command her sexual world and push her beyond any levels of pleasure she has ever experienced before. For goodness sake, man, she told you about ONE of her more “forbidden” fantasies! What a gift! You have a number of options for using this to her advantage and yours. The first one that comes to mind is to give her her fantasy with “dirty sexy talk.” David has great products for this. Check out his store for “The Art of Sexy Dirty Talk” and “Give Women Hot Phone Sex” for more information about giving women deep and powerful orgasms through words alone. You can talk her through this fantasy using vivid sensory language to describe what it would look like, smell like, taste like, sound like, and feel like while two guys are f_cking her at the same time while you watch. Intersperse sensory descriptions of the experience with “bubble” words such as “ecstasy,” “intensity,” “erotic,” “naughty,” etc. that are so vague she can stack her own preferred emotional experiences onto the sensations that you evoke through the use of the sensory words. And of course, all the while use the dirty talk that David teaches and demonstrates so eloquently. You can get this girl cumming and going with mere words so intensely that she will literally lose consciousness of her identity for a while. The key concept here is that YOU are LEADING HER through this experience, controlling its intensity, teasing her with it, and allowing her orgasms at your discretion through the language you use.
You can combine this guided fantasy, with instructions to her as to how to touch herself and masturbate during the experience. Another option is to use the various techniques that David has described in his Masterful Lover Manual to touch her in various places yourself, and imagine that your finger or fingers are extra c_cks entering her various orifices. Of course, it should be clear to you now that you can also purchase a couple of dildos and use those as substitute c_cks during these guided fantasies in combination with you own natural equipment to give her the double (or triple) penetration experiences she fantasizes about. Consider just the two-way combinations. You have your own equipment and a dildo. That’s two c_cks for her fantasy and three different places to put them. That’s six distinctly different combinations of double penetration using just you, a finger or dildo, and her fantasy that you are leading her in. And hey, guess what my friend? You’re watching it happen to her, so she is getting the exhibitionist kick that is central to this fantasy! You could even expand the exhibitionist piece of the fantasy if she is really getting off on it, by having her imagine that this is happening to her in a public place. What a naughty exhibitionist slut she is . . . .
I’ll digress here for a moment to emphasize that a fantasy is just a fantasy, so it does not follow that she would necessarily get off on the real experience of having sex with two guys while you watch, even if she were to try it. The great thing about fantasies is that we get to simulate an experience without having to deal with any of the potentially unpleasant real world consequences. The key here is to use the information she gave you about her fantasy, to help her expand her sexual responsiveness and pleasure while feeling completely safe and uninhibited at the same time. If you do that for her, you become her Sexual God. I repeat. If you do that for her, you become her Sexual God. The examples above accomplish all of this without you having to deal with the consequences of being a passive bystander.
Now consider that, if you are comfortable with this, and she is responsive, you are set up for the next obvious step, which is inviting a good buddy of yours over for a three-way with her. Her fantasy as you described it is two guys getting it on with her while you watch. Who’s to say you cannot be one of the guys doing it to her? “Sure, Baby. But I’ll choose who the guys will be. I choose me and ______.” If you do this, make sure she is really agreeable and attracted to the guy you choose. You may not want to go there, but then again, it can be a lot of fun if you have a close friend whom you trust and whom she finds adequately attractive. I think all of us who’ve had this experience will attest that it is a lot of fun. It also leads to reciprocity. By that I mean, not only may your buddy return the favor with a girlfriend of his someday, but of course, you are in the perfect position to suggest a threesome with your girl and another woman. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. But maybe this is not for you. It could lead to four-ways, orgies, multiple women . . . . I shudder to think.
There is no end to the possibilities, only many to explore. The point is to reframe what’s happened between you two as a beautiful and exciting opportunity for you to explore and expand your mutual erotic aptitudes and appetities gradually, safely and joyfully WITH YOU IN THE LEAD.
Now let’s deal with the third issue. If you are not comfortable with this level of experimentation, there is no shame in that. Under no circumstances should you ever allow someone to shame you into engaging in any kind of behavior that you are uncomfortable with. On the other hand, if you intend to grow, not just as a person, but as a man, you will need to get in the habit of challenging your comfort level in various aspects of your life. You simply cannot evolve without stretching beyond your comfort level from time to time. This may be a time to stretch beyond your comfort level a bit.
There are some other things that can be said here, which I would expect others, incuding David, to comment upon. One is that you used the lower case “i” a number of times in your e-mail. David believes this is an indicator of low self-esteem. He routinely points this out in his newsletters and advises against it. I believe this is good advice. If it is an accurate indicator of low self-esteem in your case, then I have no doubt that your girl senses it, and once again, that leads us back to the first issue. She’s testing you. If your self-esteem is so low, that you cannot deal with her fantasy without feeling “hurted” and so forth, how are you going to react if she shares a darker side of herself still unexpressed? Will you be strong enough to protect her in a confrontation with a genuine physical threat? Maybe you so, but the deepest part of her brain, that part that is tens of thousands of years old, is shrieking “NO! He’s a wimp! He can’t protect me!” This would suggest that perhaps the sex hasn’t been as good for her as you might believe, because she will not have been able to surrender to the experience in the presence of your fragile esteem. But even if your estimation of her sexual responsiveness to this point has been accurate, your reaction to her disclosure will almost certainly inhibit her future responsiveness. If this is a casual relationship, it may already be over for her. If a substantial emotional bond has developed between you, it probably isn’t over yet, but will be sooner or later, unless you rise above your hurt, STOP personalizing her fantasy as an insult, and take advantage of the magnificent possibilities that are inherent in her disclosure. SEE ABOVE and re-read as many times as necessary!
Also, your grammar in your e-mail is pretty poor. This may be because you were upset and writing quickly. Also, it’s remarkably easy to slip into poor grammar in e-mail, but poor grammar may also be characteristic of your speech. Women are very verbal creatures — much more so than men are. You don’t have to be perfect, but bad grammar on any more than a rare occasion will be a complete turn-off to any woman of high quality. Be honest in your assessment of yourself, and if your e-mail language is characteristic of your speech, consider joining a group like Toastmasters and learn how to speak well. Toastmasters can be found in most major metropolitan areas. All by itself, an experience like Toastmasters will have a strong positive impact on your self-esteem and your strength and confidence in social situations. I cannot understate how important that is to women in their evaluation of men.
Last, but certainly not least, if you haven’t read David’s “What Women Really Look for in Men,” get it ASAP and read it carefully. If you have read it, obviously it didn’t sink in, so pull it out, read it again, underline, highlight, tab, make it a study, until you get it! You’ll be much better prepared for your next TEST.
I hope you find this helpful, and I wish you the best.
Ric
A lot of people think women have fantasies because she has to fill a void or something is missing. If there is in fact a problem in the relationship chances are she feels some sort of frustration or insufficiency. But most of all, she is very open and that is good because it shows she loves to explore all of her sexuality.
If I play “Mr. Psychiatrist”, then I would think she wants you to watch so you can “see how it’s done.” The truth is, society has messed up women haha. Society tells women it’s ok to have sex, as long as she doesn’t initiate it or it teaches them to suppress sexual desires completely. Contradictory info I’d say.
Women are “allowed” sexual desires, pushed to fulfill them, but she is encouraged to be passive about everything. But in her fantasies, she is in control of all things and taboo things as well so she gets to be active and stop repressing them.
She wants sexual freedom more than anything, and if she see that this affects you then she is going to have second thoughts about your strength. Compassion helps, try putting yourself in her shoes, would you (HONESTLY) have a threesome with 2 women while she watches if she said she was completely ok with it?
Using hypnosis would be a great way to see how she wants things done
All in all, if you can call this a “problem” then this wouldn’t be a problem at all but a symptom. Dig deep within yourself and communicate honestly with her, that’s how to solve this. Honesty is like a band-aid, the slower you pull it off, the longer it’s going to hurt. If you gain her deep trust that she won’t hurt your ego, she will not be afraid to tell you anything and she will open up even more to you and show her raw femininity.
my 2cents, if it’s even worth that much haha
Oh man, that’s kind of a messed up situation. But believe me when I say I completely understand what you are going through, because I am going through the same thing right now in a different way with my GF.
In my situation it’s different because my gf wanted to have a threesome with a guy and his girlfriend, which I told her she could do…and she did…without me there to even watch. So trust me bro, I understand how the thought can drive you nuts. Jealousy is a b*tch, and especially when it’s involving someone you really care about. Recently i’ve been having a hard time trying to cope with my situation in a semi poly/ open relationship.
Here is my advice to you of what I have discovered so far in my journey through the fun world of Jealousy.
1. Even if you decided to make it go through, you are definitely NOT ready for it yet. You are going to have to spend a lot of time thinking about jealousy, why you feel it, and think of some strategies to cope with it.
2. If you decide to go through with it, agree on a keyword ahead of time, that signifies that you are uncomfortable with what’s going on and to stop. That way you always have a way out. I’ve heard of a lot of swingers doing this, and it seems to work pretty well for them.
3. What makes this particularly complicated, and different from any old threesome/ foursome, is that she seems like someone you really care about. This is the reason why you feel sick, and believe me man, I’ve felt the same sickness. You’re going to have to be able to separate sex…from love. One thing that will really help you if you decide to go through with it is to have your gf re-assure you constantly.
- Have her tell you she loves you before, and while she is having sex with the two guys.
- She should have sex with you first, before she has sex with the two guys…period. Maybe she wants you to get off while she is having sex with the two guys, but even still, you must be the first one to penetrate her.
- After words have her leap into your arms and both of you will tell each other how much you love each other.
4. She needs to understand how you feel about all of this. Help her to understand that you are not trying to pass judgments on her, and that you are just trying to let her know how you HONESTLY feel. Tell her that you want her to be able to have her fantasy, but that it still make s you uncomfortable.
5. I believe a lot of your fear is that she will leave you for someone else if they have sex as good or better than you. I think the thing that i’ve realized from all of this poly ordeal is that although having a great sex life is really import the orgasms are only one piece of the puzzle in your relationship. If all you have is a relationship that is built on sex, and all she think of you is as her sex object, then of course you will be worried about someone else pleasuring her.
Sex is really important in a relationship, but sometimes it can be like duct tape. You see the table starting to fall apart, so you duct tape it together again. Yeah, that works, and you can keep doing that, but it really hasn’t fixed anything. H#ll I used to use sex and multiple orgasms to distract my gf from real problems in the relationship. But in the end it doesn’t really matter. You still have to go straight to the heart of the problem in your relationship. If she really loves you, and knows that you care about her, she won’t leave you.
It’s like my gf told me after the threesome, when I got really upset “I mean I would be lying to you if I said “No it wasn’t fun or pleasurable”, but after words I knew that I still loved you. Sure they are really fun attractive people, but I that can’t even compare with love.”
First, I’d like to say that you seem to be quite emotionally distraught. So much so that you can’t figure out what you need to do and must ask for advice from objective observers. I’ve experienced something that was indeed very similar on a few occasions.
On that note, I’d like to give some preliminary advice, make sure you are totally calm and collected when dealing with this issue or it has a much higher chance of exploding in your face.
Imagine a shotgun that chooses not to go off until after your eye is pressed up to the end of the barrel, trying to figure out what’s wrong with the round.
So, from this point on it isn’t really advice I’d like to give, but more my own experiences and my own solutions when presented with strikingly similar problems.
***
There have been many times my heart was ripped cleanly from my chest, chewed violently and then spit out to be trampled in the dust. I have seen the very best and the extreme worst of women and to tell you truth, they’re no better or no worse then any guys I’ve known.
A while back, when I was just starting out in the whole dating scene, I had been quite hurt by more than a few women. I had all manner of things being done to me. Girls were cheating on me at parties that we went to together, some were cheating with my best friends, others wanted to have threesomes with my friends, etc…
Off topic for a second, It’s always interesting to me when you learn things that enable you to look back on a previous experience and you can gain an even deeper understanding of what happened and as a side effect increase understanding about yourself and the world around you.
Anyway, to stay more on topic, as I look back to all those muddy situations with my newly gained knowledge a lot of the muddyness starts to clear up. It’s a mixture of experience neatly blended with some very well thought out theories that make a mental detergent of sorts.
Ok, the conclusion I arived at after re-examining all the situations was that I was more at fault in each situation. I could track down the clues that everything was about to fall apart. Each time I could trace back to the beginning of my mistakes and I’m possitive that they contributed more than their fair share of problems.
The sexual fantasies have come up more than a few times. One girl I was dating awhile back said she wanted to have a threesome with myself and another guy… Needless to say, the idea didn’t turn me on all that much. She tried to soften it up a little by saying it could be a girl, but I had already been hurt. She later followed with an uppercut after it had become obvious I was in pain and suggested that she maybe wanted an orgy instead. Anyway, Instead of trying to talk to her and then taking it as a chance to explore my own sexuality I blew up, called her a few somewhat undeserved names and then went outside and cried about the whole dilema. Emotions hammered me all at once, pounding me into submission… I truly caved.
That was the proverbial “final straw” after which I decided to take a break and see if there was a way to figure this whole thing out. The break was exactly what I needed. I didn’t know what I had to do, but I was on an adventure. It started with one book, quickly escalating from there, turning into a self improvement whirlwind that picked me up and still hasn’t put me down yet.
Jump to the present, there is a girl I curently talk to and the same situation came up where she suggested she wanted to have a threesome with me and another guy. I told her that if it was going to happen with me it would only be with another girl. Not once getting angry or deffensive, never calling her names, I only told her straight out what my rules were. She agreed to my rules and we went on talking like the episode was a totally normal part of conversation.
Two examples of similar situations turning out to have totally different endings. The only thing I can attribute the later success to is my changed response and more importantly the character that has been developed over a fair number of years spent digging and searching. The knowledge that there are all types of women and each one is a chance to explore my sexuality helps as well.
Now, there is always the possibility that the women feels very comfortable with you. So comfortable in fact that the relationship starts to chafe a little bit and she feels the need to stir things up or go crazy, which could very well include hurting you… on purpose.
Causing pain is a very effective part of seduction, being used to help spice things up when they’ve run a little on the bland side. That includes stirring a tiny bit of jealousy in your gut to push you into becoming slightly more passionate in your lovemaking. You may not be strong enough in the bedroom and jealousy is a very effective motivator to become more beastly and passionate. Animalistic and instinctual could be another way to look at it but however you view it something more is needed then just orgasms. It’s all about the experience leading up to the orgasm.
There is also the chance that she did in fact want to hurt you. She could have been waiting for an opening so she could shove a spike really quick into a soft spot. She might even have all of your soft spots mapped out so she can maliciously exploit them one by one in future situations, causing you enough pain so that you leave of your own free will. In that way you save her the work of having to break up with you.
There are as many possibilties as there are women on this planet, each and every individual motivation driving them to do what they do. It’s best not to get hung up on it. With so many possibilities you can never know the truth unless she explains why she did it. And even then, she might hold something back to spare your feelings a little.
I don’t believe her intentions were malicious. The fact that she tried to pass it off as a joke to ease the pain a little tells me that she does care about you.
I believe that if it hurts too much and you don’t think that you can let it go, then you need to do the both of you a favor and move on. The pain will only get worse if you try to ignore it or patch over it with a smile. If left to fester over time it can turn into something truly grotesque, causing you and everyone around you pain.
On the other hand, if you feel you can live with what she said and accept her sexuality and fantasies, then you have a chance of working it out and exploring your own sexuality more deeply. Remember that the women may tell you her fantasies, but that’s never the final word.
In my opinion it comes down to this; when I wasn’t ready for the situation I moved on and learned from it, you might want to think about doing something similar before you get caught up in an emotional self-drama you don’t seem skilled enough to navigate just yet.
It’s better to start fresh than to spend time nursing a wound, unless of course you feel that nursing the wound could strengthen you for the future. True, it might very well do that exact thing, but broadening your experience also does that quite nicely with considerably less pain and a much higher success rate.
Always keep in mind that the problem remains in your own head and no where else, so if there is something to be done, it’s to be done by yourself to yourself. Just remember to sprinkle in some some good advice meaty with wisdom and plenty of experience.
Peace out
Hi,
well i know just how u feel my x wantted the same thing and like u said it does hurt very much and does make u angery, i think u should sit down wif her and tell her that it hurt u and tell her because of this u r losing love or attraction for her because she was suggesting well sort of cheatting on u and i hope she will c it ur way and understand but do understand u most proberly u would like to have a 3some wif other females but wif her as 1 yes? but she should respect ur feelings more i mean those things i believe u shouldnt share unless u r in a relationship which eather that is allowed or u can talk like that to each other even like that it will hurt a bit bit honestly it is up to u if u do not like the idea tell her and if she doesnt stay with u then she isnt werth it.. i had to find that out the hard way wif my x and it really hurt mainly because that happened to me wen i was just 16 i talked to my friends about it and they said she isnt werth it but i loved her and didnt care untill 1 day wen she left me and went off wif 2 guyz that nite so think about it but do not think about her doing it because it will hurt and anger u talk to her about it and if more problems pop up then email again and we will think of other ways to help… sorry but this is all i can think of at the moment i hope it helps good luck. :)
There are a lot of useful comments! There are a lot long comments too! I’ll try to keep it short!
I think the fact that she shared her fantasy with the guy is a very good thing. It shows trust and a deep level of connection. Also the kind of fantasy is important. It might seem that she doesn’t want to get fucked by the guy but this is not the case. I think that in her mind she upgraded him from a lover to sexual mentor. He has brought the woman in her and in her fantasy she wants to show him that.
In her fantasy he has the most important role. He is not the entertainer, he is the one entertained. The threesome is a show for him. Its a show of how he has brought the sexual woman (the slut) in her. Its also a ‘thank you’ show. She is doing it to please him!
I think this guy did everything great before this situation. His reaction to the fantasy was not so good but I understand it. It messed his ego. His logical part of the brain told him that she wants to fuck other men and not him! That raised insecurities and negative emotions followed. Bad thing! An honest talk with her will help things back to normal. I think no real harm have been done but it might need some more time to regain that feeling of trust and connection.
Regarding the actual fantasy, he can make it real. He can do it by hypnosis or by simple suggestion. Both ways can work. However, I wouldn’t be in a hurry to do that. They both need some time to feel at ease with it!
That’s about it from me! Have fun,
Jef
Well, either she meant it or she didnt. ( for me its hard to tell forsure which one it is).
If she didnt, she either wants to see his reaction and hopes to see some anger/jealousy on his part, to see that he is attracted to her. In which case he should continue the relationship. (personally I’m against relationships, but if one does believe in them, this would not be a cause to leave if it was this kind of test.)
If she didnt mean it but gets off on making him jealous…DUMP THAT BITCH.
Now, If she DID mean it….well… she thought she can express this being that they have done many things as this guy said in his email, and so she felt it was time to FULLY open up to him about her DEEPEST DARKEST fantasies, thinking he would accept and go with it. She might be one who wants her man to get excited seeing her get fucked (like David and his girl). Perhaps she wants to at least try a swinger lifestyle by bringing this fantasy to the table. If so, the only way to keep her satisfied now, would be to do it, and if he cant, then its over.
JJ from Los Angeles
Or if she did mean it,
The Sexual Comfort Zone
You’ve just been taken out of your Sexual Comfort Zone.
Clearly you’re woman is a very sexual girl and as you’re relationship has progressed over time you successfully brought out her “inner slut†and allowed her to trust you. She trusted you completely by sharing her secret fantasy with you that is very special and personal to her.
Then you completely screwed up.
Right at the moment when she was most vulnerable and was opened up to you completely you slammed her.
Right at the moment when she was most vulnerable and sexually open to you, right at the moment when you’re sexual relationship could have taken it to the next amazing level, you got angry at her. You hurt her.
In your mind, her fantasy of being fucked by 2 men while you watch is a threat. This took you completely out of your comfort zone. You believe that she wants to “make you jealous†and “finds pleasure in the act of making fun of you.†That’s simply not true.
In her mind, that fantasy was a very exciting experience that she wanted to share with you. She wanted to take the sexual relationship with you to the next level.
But now the trust has been broken and I highly doubt it will happen now. Even if she did, she would be too busy worrying about you being angry or paranoid to even enjoy it.
Try looking at this differently. Go to that place that makes you uncomfortable, and just do it. Focus on her getting your woman off. Focus on the sexual adventure. Turn her on, encourage her and make her cum. It may hurt a little but soldier on and enjoy it. Expand your Sexual Comfort Zone…
Hi there,
I think that can be many interpretations for the situation described. Without knowing the relationship between the writer and his girlfriend I cannot really choose one.
Apart from the ones already presented, I think it is also possible that she wants to be admired by her sexual achievements. The key to her fantasy is that he is watching her, not the rest – which is pretty common. It might be that, contrary to what everyone is writing, our writer is a very dominant and macho lover who fully satisfies his girlfriend. It is possible that she wants to impress him with her abilities. Let’s say that our reader has shown her a lot of new sexual techniques and sensations. She might want to show that she does have some merit herself, and that it is not all his doing. How can she do that? By being DPed by other guys. Now, does she want to humiliate him? That depends. It is not impossible that she thinks that he is so cool he won’t mind – which I doubt – or that she is just projecting from her viewpoint: “I get horny seeing him fucking 2 girls, as I admire the stud he is, so he will feel the same, and admire my sexual abiilities”
Now that fantasy can get your relationship on shaky grounds. If you feel the slightest insecurity about it, don’t do it. I would definitely play a dildo on her and be sure to give her enough complements. And tell her, with a cool, relaxed look, almost in a laugh: “I am not the kind of men who can be sitting watching some guys having you. I am your man. I might allow some extra dick to be temporarily invited in, to serve a purpose, but no way I will not be on top of things. Get another fantasy… ;-)” And give her a HUGE smile and a kiss… But DONT make her feel guilty about the fantasy. And you could also give it a twist: “Would you feel horny by imagining me fucking some two hot ladies?” with an inviting and exciting look – not a sad or recriminatory one – and maybe you could see what her thoughts are. If she says “no way”, then she is out to humilliate you. If she says “Yes!” then she is just projecting that on you. And you are on to have a very nice foursome…
Good luck,
Rodinsky
Hi,
I think you made the first mistake by overreacting and getting angry.
You asked her about her fantasies. You should be open minded enough to listen calmly and discover what really makes it exciting for her to make you watch her f**king two guys at the same time.
Many women can have many outrageous fantasies. If you do not believe, read “My Secret Garden” by Nancy Friday. You should be open to discuss any fantasy calmly, before even bringing up the topic of fantasies.
Before labeling as “sick”, you could ask some more questions calmly, like “what makes that fantasy to turn you on?” “Why should I watch? I’d rather participate?” etc…
Maybe she just wants more sex. Maybe she wants to turn you on so much, that after you watch them, you two can have mind blowing, passionate sex. There may be many different motives with her wanting you to watch her threesome.
Personally, if I were in your shoes, I’d be playful with it. I’d even be open to realize the fantasy, on the condition that she also gets to watch me with two women at the same time.
The only real problem with that fantasy is, if you lose control of the sexuality in this relationship. You got to lead her. You got to have the personal power and control. If she thinks she is not satisfied, so you got to watch and learn how it’s done, that’s a real problem. I hope that’s not the case.
You lost some of your power by over reacting. You showed her she could hurt you. Now she has some power over you. And lost some respect over you.
If you have given her some powerful orgasms, and she had a good amount of respect for you, that alone won’t let the whole relationship go down the drain.
However, I think you should resolve this by talking to her openly and honestly. And be calm and cool about it.
You should come from Personal Power.
You should have not slightest doubt about your position. You are a man that understands women sexuality and her emotional needs. You are are man capable of giving any women great pleasure. You are the prize. You are testing her to see if she is worth and capable of receiving the pleasure. Not the other way around.
You seem to be unsure about that. “Pretty sure” is not enough. You must be absolutely sure.
Also you have used small i’s referring yourself. This shows you have low self esteem.
Maybe you are coming from not total self esteem and power, but coming from “technical knowledge” of being able to give women powerful orgasms.
Let me tell you that, giving powerful orgasms is only a part of her experience. Being in the presence an under the leadership of a powerful man is what it is all about.
Whatever you do, do some “inner work” first. Women have instinct and observation power to spot a powerful man among 1000 timid wimps from a mile. Your personal power and self esteem radiates in everything you do.
Without hight self esteem and personal power, you will not succeed with this women or any other women. Develop this first, rest comes easy.
First I would take a deep breath and try to notice my own feelings. How is that making me react? In the end the only thing that can really affect you should be yourself, that is, you should have control over your emotions from a deattached point of view. That might sound odd because you are supposed to be in “love†with this person, and that should mean that you are ‘attached’ to her on some level. But there are different levels of love, and I guess one of the first ones is where you are completely attached to that person, value her a lot, and could not stand losing her, like you need her to be happy.. Whenever something coming from outside of you is having such a strong impact on you (hurting you) you should reconsider. To really be happy in relationships you have to be happy with yourself first. You have to be not only cool with being alone, but actually like it as well.
You depend on yourself for your happiness, and once you have that, you will have a higher form of love for everybody else: compassion! Because you realize that people do things based on certain other things in their lives, not out of stupidity, cruelty, or ignorance. So you have to try and understand her, where she is coming from. But before that, as I mentioned, you have to deal with your own emotions. Have compassion for yourself: recognize the emotions, and try to understand where they are coming from, what might have caused them, and how you can move on and learn from them. Then you do the same with your girlfriend.
You should be happy that she trusted you enough to share the fantasy with you. Don’t blow it by making her regret it, and never trusting you again to share what is on her mind. Because she will keep having the same thoughts, without you knowing about them, and being able to do anything about it…
So you should be happy she came out to you. The KEY, however, is for you to open up to her, and tell her that it made you feel insecure, or whatever emotions it made you feel, but that you found it awesome that she trusted you enough share with you, and that you are willing to fully try and understand it. Tell her to explain what she thinks turned her on about the fantasy; what parts she actually enjoyed; how she would feel doing it etc. how does she think that would make you feel, and more importantly how she would like you to react. Really dive into it and try to figure it out. I know it sucks that your girl is having those thoughts, but she is having them. You have to understand them. Only then can you really judge them.
From here on forward it is kind of hard to give further suggestions, because it would depend on what she said.
But basically you should get to the bottom of it, see if is something that you can live with. In the end of the day, fantasies are fantasies, and they don’t necessarily really mean much beyond that. I am sure you have fantasies of fucking 5 girls at the same time. doesn’t mean you would do it if you are in a happy monogamous relationship.
But I understand your worry, why would she want you to actually be there seeing it? It is ok if she wanted to just have sex with 5 guys, like you would with 5 girls. But I think the issue is that she just wants to know that you can ‘take it.’ That it is ‘ok’ with you. That the person of authority in her world (you) are ok with her doing bad things. Probably goes back to control issues she had growing up with her parents or other people of authority; lack of attention, or something like that. But The fact that you are in the fantasy means that you are the key figure in it. I don’t think it is about the sex that she would actually have. I can picture her having the sex, but with her eyes always on you, almost looking for your approval, or any type of reaction from you. I don’t know what the appropriate reaction would be, because it depends on her specific case. So Dive into it and try to figure it out.
Wow some of you guys are leaving some pretty insightful comments. Particularly I have to agree with hottieblonde. You did a great job being man enough to open her up sexually. Your woman felt secure enough to tell you one of her wildest fantasies, even though I am sure she knew it was potentially dangerous relationship move.
Ask your friends what their girlfriend’s fantasies are. How many of them, except for those who have studied David’s material, can tell you? She showed a great deal of trust in telling you this and as bonepony mentioned, I don’t think it was her intention to hurt you at all. You asked, she told you.
It’s your responsibility to be man enough to handle the fact that she is a sexual creature and she still finds men, besides you, attractive. Jealousy is a useless, negative emotion that as an empowered man, you can choose to rise above. It is your problem; it is for you to deal with it. Besides if you are really doing all these wonderful things for her that you say you are, then what have you to fear?
Having said that, don’t beat yourself up about it if you are a little jealous. You were obviously blindsided. You were perhaps expecting her to tell you about her fantasy of have a threesome with you and her hot friend? Lol. You have to be careful that you actually want to hear what she has to say and not just if it’s what you want to hear. If you aren’t sure about that, then just don’t ask.
Also, I think there is an inherent danger in trying to over analyze the situation here. And I don’t think you should leap to conclusions about what her intentions were. You can’t know what she was thinking, and everything she says doesn’t revolve around you and your masculinity.
Finally, going back to my earlier comment (and hottieblondes), all your woman did was tell you her fantasy. If you aren’t comfortable with letting her actually act out her fantasy, and it’s debatable whether or not you should, then don’t. Use it. A woman’s most powerful erogenous zone is her mind, as David has tried to teach us. If you can make the fantasy real in her head, why the hell would she bother going out looking for two potentially disappointing strangers? You can fulfill her fantasy on your own, do a great job of it and leave her feeling very, very grateful.
You can’t even be sure she ever really wanted to really do it. It might just be a fun scenario for you both to play with.
Check that one off.
So what’s her next secret fantasy?
Ok. My advice to you about this is this: You are over-reacting to this.
When your woman says such fantasy, no matter how outrageous it seems to be, you should never express negative feelings about it. No matter what it is. It is the bottom line. Why? Because it will destroy that bond of deeeeeeep trust. Believe me, I have experienced it.
Now, the reason why she has such a fantasy is because, I think, she wants to observe her lover, that is you, while being fucked by other two nobodies. It is no sign of end of relationship based on what you wrote above. She simply wants to watch you. AND, it makes her so exciting to even think that she would be being penetrated by non-lovers while her true-lover is NOT penetrating her AND be actually there, right next to her and WATCHING H.E.R naked and being fucked and all.. Isn’t it taboo? It is. And, different women have different fantasies. Some women will rather have nastier fantasies than the one your girl has. The bottom line is this, , Do Not Take It Seriously. You may laugh and say, how can I not take it seriously? She is my girlfriend! …… Hey, I am not your enemy. I am your friend. And, I am not trying to take you to ….another world. I am just trying to lead you to a higher shift in mind, if you will.
You must get it! Please//
One last thing, you decide whether or not she will have that fantasy come true in her reality. If you don’t want to accept it, then don’t. It could hurt your relationship if you let her do everything she wants to do. Making the balance depends on your maturity and experience, etc.
You go and fucking rock man! Good luck.
Jay
BZZZZZT! Wrong Answer! She was testing you, and you blew it.
A real man doesn’t get upset or jealeous when his woman shares a fantasy. A real man throws her on the bed, pulls off her pants, and discusses the fantasy while his dick is inside of her. She wants to feel your strength, your power, and your love as you f***k her hard!
David,
Let me try to help your questioner. I have learnt that there is a 5 point procedure to approaching and solving a problem. This problem and solution is so basic there’s no need to use any formula.
Your girl has let you in on her fantasy so one could say that you should really be thanking your lucky stars that she just didn’t enact it without your knowledge.
Or perhaps she already has.
At any rate, assuming that she hasn’t, if you open your mind, and let her go through with this, the test of her having her fantasy fulfilled with you watching would prove if your relationship could stand the test of time. But before that happens, how would your girlfriend react for instance to your ‘new-found’ fantasy of catching the event on video camcorder for the two of you to enjoy in the future? Or what would her reaction be to you getting it on with 2 girls with her being the spectator?
You see, if she makes her ‘honest’ proposal to you, as she has, and your reaction is hostility, resistance and getting into the mental techniques and mechanics, like your response is, you have shown her how vulnerable you are in the relationship, some people call this neediness, some call it testing, I call it acting like a desperado; whatever you call it you have given her the controlling upper hand in the relationship – as a man you should never do this, and this isn’t anything to do with controlling or possessive behaviour: as a matter of fact the man being in control is actually what the woman really wants, but that’s another story! On the other hand if you (had) calmly accepted her proposal, and it’s hopefully not to late for this, but also let her know your fantasy (previous paragraph) too, this would show if she is as open-minded as she wants you to be, or if it’s wholly about her selfish pleasure and satisfaction. The decision then about your relationships future is much easier.
Adults are very un-predictable and you could be surprised, but never be thrown psychotic by the words and actions of others, regardless of any assurances, this should actually be a life lesson. We can’t control other people’s actions. And women, especially younger ones, can be even worse when it comes to this impulsiveness.
Incidentally, if my wife ever proposed this to me, my retort would be the same.
In a nutshell: let her enjoy her fantasy, make sure you enjoy yours, this will expose the true nature and essence of your relationship which might not be such a bad thing, and worse case scenario could either way see you ending up with either an enlightened companion in your life or a fresh girlfriend on your arm and a hot DVD in your locker.
Good Luck!!!
Mark Rosmar
Hi,
I just wanted to add something from my perspective.
In my work i interact with people who are sexually ‘deviant’ if you will, and there are a lot of things i have seen that would be considered extremely odd and definitely not accepted by most.
‘cuckoldry’ is one of those things.
I find it interesting to read your ‘mainstream’ emotional response (ie. how most guys would react) to a fantasy that your woman has.
Turns out, there are a lot of men out there that would love to be in your position and even help act out this fantasy.
A cuckold is a man who is being denied sexual pleasure by a dominant female, while the woman is getting fucked by one or more men . These active men are often called ‘bulls’.
All 3 parties derive great pleasure through these fantasies in a consensual way, and can be considered a part of sexual power exchange.
While the woman denies her man ‘direct’ sexual pleasure, she KNOWS that the denied male will be on a mental ‘high’ while he is being ‘actively denied’.
She loves him and by acting in a way that most people would consider cruel, she actually shows her love to him in a unique way.
I don’t know your woman so i cant say if she really would like to experience a scenario like the one i described, she might just want to keep it in the realm of fantasy.
Either way, it doesnt mean that she doesnt love you, but she probably just gets off on the idea, like a submissive men gets off on the idea of being denied and dominated.
Try to talk to her about what exactly turns her on about this fantasy, and try to be empathic about it. Hell, if you really love her, you could even do some research yourself. -wikipedia – cough, cough-
Cheers and Good luck,
Logan.
Well, I didn’t read all the posts so maybe what I’m going to say would be redundant,
but, your girfriend rely on you enough to tell her fantasies and I don’t know how I would handle that too.
I believe I would be jealous and probably would feel what you are feeling now.
However, that is a unconfident behaviour and if you do have enough confidence in yourself and really love her to the point that you would allow her to have sex with another man, you should try it.
Otherwise, you are going to loose her anyway, being in your mind, being for another guy willing to make her fantasies come true.
Hope it helps.
Nomad from Brazil
Hey, I have a few points I think can help you.
1. I think you’re very closed minded. That doesn’t mean that you have to watch her do this, I would never approve this for me and my girl. Having said that, I would understand that this is a fantasy… and it’s JUST THAT. A fantasy, that is all.
2. You are obviously offended that she would think about having sex with another guy. What about when you want to have sex with another girl? Does that make you angry too? I think we call that a double standard.
3. From my point of view, being offended is the first step to monumental change. I think that you are on the right path. This will probably eat away at you until you figure out that EVERY woman has fantasies like this.
4. Read the book “My Secret Garden” by Nancy Friday. It is a book filled with nothing but women’s fantasies. You will cringe if things like what she said make you blush. This book will really open up your eyes to the things women want.
All in all, I think you have a fighting chance if you just open your eyes. If you don’t, your relationship will be over before you know it. Be understanding, know she will always have these fantasies, but 95% of the time, women do not act on them.
How about this….
Say: Fine, let me have sex with two girls at the same time in front of you and we’re square!
That might be fun!
-Max
look. I didn’t find that she was trying to make you jealous or trying to hurt you. You asked her what her fantasy was. I think it was communicated that knowing you were watching would be a huge experience for her. Sure I think there’s a fine line there. Especially if you have feelings for this woman. After all, you brought her to this point so far.
She showed some very interesting things to you. She trusts you. She believes in you. She could tell you that fantsy without worrying if you would think horridly of her.
Personally if you wanted to go there, I would work up to it. Start off with maybe both of you seeing another couple and just see what happens.
Here’s the point. The cat is out of the bag. It’s awefully hard to put it back in. Are you interested in her? Was her fantasy about you or about her?
I have never really done the other people involved thing. So I am not an expert. But After reading a lot of Davids stuff I’m thinking that you have missed some concepts along the way. I would re-read some and get the conceptual understanding.
my story is almost identical to Davids. I’m not an expert but i know how to please a woman. This MMF thing with your girlfriend might not be a good idea. Only you can answer that. Maybe try being one of the males first.
Again I could not see any cruelty towards you based on what you wrote.
CJ
I would have to say that, there are two parts of the coin. you have to gain that immense respect from your woman to you. If you molded your woman with sufficient amount of respect in the first place, she would only fantasize about you or get crazy about you not the other way around. you got the right tools and knowledge, but you still have to go inside her mind as a part of her fantacy.
nice! open-mindedness! thats the bottom line. are you single? :)
Dear Individual,
Capital I’s, always.
You’re wrong saying, “no real man would like to see his
woman being fucked by another man”. You are way off,
really really way off, I recommend purchasing all of
David Shades, then you’ll laugh at yourself for saying that.
For me, it would come down to a selfish decision,
which would be whether I was into it at the time.
It might depend on how many 3somes with other girls
we’ve done recently. If she wants to tease you
and make you jealous, you should be aware that
that departs from David Shade’s advice on 3somes.
Whatever she wants, it depends how much she’s earned
that much trust. However, you ought to find out if
that’s what she wants, I doubt it – she probably wants
you to enjoy watching.
One thing I did once, I hypnotized my girlfriend,
gave her the other man fantasy that way. She said
it was really realistic, that I had long dark hair,
that we were in another apartment. The fantasy included
how I had picked her up. I even told her she would feel a
little guilty about leaving the real me by myself while
she went off with this strange guy, but
that this would make her feel even more turned on.
She was especially turned on, while I was fucking her she
said “I didn’t know it could be like this” – something she
never said even when the real me gave her any kind of orgasm.
She was clearly a little bit more excited than usual,
and there was something that other me had besides long dark
hair, that I don’t. But it’s still me.
I can understand your concern. I cannot understand your accusations that the reason women cheat is to humiliate their partner.
First I want to address your girlfriend. She obviously is comfortable enough (or was) to divulge a very deep fantasy, and you probably caught her in a very physical moment. In these moments, even the stupidest of things can turn someone on.
In fertility and sexual research, it has been noted that when a man thinks about, or watches (especially) their partner having sex with another, his sperm count rises. At the base of sex, is the need to procreate. There is one hint right there as of why it may be a physical turn on for your lover.
Second, women love to be adored. They love to be appreciated, coveted. They love to be dominant as well as submissive. In screwing two men while you watch, she is hoping that you will be aroused, and to want her even more. She wants that passion to spark in you, and because that spark is in YOU, not another, she is bonding with you in a very unique and powerful way. Think of it as when she teases you with wearing sexy boots and fishnets, with just a glimpse of the “good stuff,” and then immediately hides herself again. She is making you want her! This is a powerful, and incredibly loving gesture. The only difference here is that by fucking two men, she is reaching you on a more powerful, primal level, so much so that your conscious mind is so confused by it you had to write David Shade!
She is not being cruel, mon ami. It is a loving gesture. Think of Swingers. Couples very much in love will have sex with other couples, often in the same room. Some people get their rocks off this way.
Now that I have remarked on your girlfriend, it’s time for you.
Women do NOT cheat to humiliate their partners. I am sure some do, but these women are cruel creatures. You have no right to say that no real woman would not like to experience this fantasy. You will hear Fundamentalists say that no real man would want to fuck their girl up the ass. Is this true?
Change your opinion of your woman, fast. You have broken her down when she revealed a very secret fantasy to you, and it will be a LONG time before she reveals herself fully to you again.
Appreciate her for what she is. You do not have to act on her fantasies if they bother you! But I suggest you take a deep look inside yourself and pull out that root that is causing your self-consciousness. This harmless little fantasy of your girlfriend’s has made it clear that you have some work to do.
Strengthen your opinion of yourself, and such fantasies will not hurt you, because, mon ami, it is not the fantasy that hurts, but your own self-consciousness that has hurt you.
Blessings and may you find the help you seek.
David,
You inspired your woman to become truly sexual. She is exploring fantasies that many women are too timd to entertain. Furthermore, you have gained her trust as a man, and she has entrusted you with what she must have realized was a socially taboo fantasy, and one with the potential to shock you. But she was certain enough of your support, that she shared it with you. You screwed up when you rejected her fantasy. You told her, in other words, that it was not ok to be fully sexualized as she was experiencing it. You condemned her expression of passion, because it offended you. In short, you encouraged her to open herself up to her sexuality- which she did-, then make herself vulnerable to you by sharing them -which she did-, then you judged her and her sexuality, and you informed her that you thought she was a bad person.
You may have lost completely her trust. If I were her, I would not share intimate secrets with you any longer. If she is weak, she will be sexually stunted. If she is strong, she will be angery with you, and then bored by you and your limitations.
A better way to handle that situation would be to have asked her calmly and confidently what that fantasy made her feel. She might have told you that it made her feel like a dirty slut, and hot to be seking your approval. Maybe she would have told you that it was the fantasy that was hot to her, but not the reality. You see, it is how it makes her feel that you needed to recreate, not the situation.
Its fantasy. It should not be judged. There is no right or wrong in fantasy. I am sure that you have fantasized while you were fucking your woman hard that you were fucking someone else, or maybe several someone elses.
If you had listened to her, you might have hypnotized your woman, and then made her feel her fatasy. Made it come alive as you narrated it back to her. Your confidence and willingness to honor her strong sexual drive would have excited her immensley.
Now, if she was unwilling, or unable, to continue in the relationship without two men fucking her while you watched, then there was nothing you could do to prevent her from leaving. An analogous situation would be where you were not interested in three somes becuase it hieghted your woman’s arousal, but only because you longed to be with other women. There is a way to have other women, and it is called leaving. If she wanted to be with those men not to excite herself and excite you, then it is your turn to leave her and wish her well in finding those men. But if her drive was mutual excitment and demonstrating affection, then something could be worked out.
I think it is time to recognize your own limitations before you demand to be with a woman without sexual limitations. I think you blew this one, but you will do better in the future by growing truly confident.
What’s the big deal? She wants to have fun and she wants to have fun sharing it with you. Put yourself in her shoes. If you tell your woman you want to fuck with two other women while she watches, if that were your fantasy, how would you want her to react? Would you like her to discourage you?
You have to accept the fact that every person (men and women) in this planet are attracted to more than one person, so you will never be the only one in her mind.
So, why not accept this fact and be happy with it?
It’s a better idea than fighting your woman’s fantasy, (and the reality of the world) being miserable about your woman being unfaithful or whatever you want to call it (a complete double standard because you surely have fantasized with something simmilar too), and not enjoying the time you spend with her.
Cheers
Andres
This is bull$hit!
Most of these replies have been hilarious. They’re very encouraging of you letting your woman live out her fuck-me-but-no-fuck-you fantasy. The only thing missing was the contact information for volunteers.
The very first thing you have to decide in life as a MAN is what you want in your life. What kind of life do you want to have? What kind of women do you want in your life? What do you want? Do you want to watch your woman “cuckold” you with two guys each with dicks twice as long and thick as yours? That’s totally up to you if you do.
As far as this anything goes attitude, If your woman told you she had a fantasy of watching you being fucked in the ass by her ex-lover while giving head to a billy goat would you go along with it?
At the same time a fantasy is a fantasy. Nothing to get angry about if you’re secure in yourself and your relationship. Reacting with hostility to a fantasy is a sure fire way to sabotage the relationship you’ve already built. And as David has already pointed out there are ways to make her experience impossible things as if they were real. Hypnotize her and make her experience her fantasy without causing yourself any problems. That should be enough for her. If’ it’s not then kick her to the curb.
My advise is to be unflappable at all times. Don’t let it phase you whatever her fantasies are. But you choose which fantasies get acted out and in what way.
Your initial response is quite natural of any man in today’s society. The truth is, however, that if you reflect on your situation you’ll see that you are a truly lucky man and your response just showed her you’re like the rest of the guys she’s been with. There’s always hope for salvation.
You say you have given your woman a myriad of sexual experiences, both “physical and mental”. In the process, you have probably expanded her sexual envelope. She probably feels closer, more comfortable and more open to discussing some of the deeper, more unexplainable, fantasies she has with you because she trusts and respects you so much.
The truth is that women have very intricate fantasies which are irrational by social norms. The rape fantasy is a common one, but NO WOMAN actually wants to be raped. But in the context of a man whom they love, respect and trust, being ravaged and ravished in the same arms which they find comfort in can be majorly orgasmic.
So, consider this. The woman in your life has just revealed one of those deeper, intricate, unexplainable womanly fantasies. Don’t use the norms of society to rationalise it and, instead, try to grasp the feelings she may experience from being fucked hard by two men while you are watching. Perhaps you can give her those same, exciting feelings without actually having her getting fucked by two men. Remember that you are an important element of this fantasy (she wants YOU to watch, not anyone else!), and she has revealed something to you which she cannot reveal to any other man (unless you don’t do anything about it now and she actually DOES).
Assure her again, that your response was a natural one and that after thinking about it more you’re actually quite curious and ready to explore it more (if you’re not curious not, GET CURIOUS – women’s fantasies are something else and provide you opportunities to harness some raw, animalistic power in her and affirm your raw masculiune power).
Talk to her about how she FEELS when she thinks about fucking two other guys and you are watching. You should try to give her those same feelings. It is your responsibility as her Masterful Lover.
Your initial response was probably because you’ve reached the limits of your own sexual envelope. This is your chance to harness some courage and true balls and venture into the unknown. Remember that, with women, it’s not usually about the actual fantasy but the powerful emotions they feel during the fantasy.
Don’t rationalise it, just work with it. Good luck.
- Kash
On the way home I just realized my previous comment was slightly off target.
My main point was that she wanted to show how good she is in bed. But I made a wrong reasoning, because:
a) Women dont want to show off their sexual abilities, they want to show off their seduction abilities.
What she wants is to show you that she is desired by everyone – a Queen – but that only you – the King – has her. The other guys might fuck her, but she would be looking at you the whole time, because her heart is yours. She will do it if you let her, and she would be burning of desire of seeing you fuck her ten times as hard afterwards.
It is the same kind of motivation that leads women to dress a short skirt before going out with their boyfriend: for everyone to desire her and for you to feel that jealousy that makes you want to desire her more and fuck her harder (see http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep021223.pdf for a evolutionary explanation of this).
From most comments, I think there is a very dangerous pitfall everyone above is falling into:
It is true that women make some tests blabla to guys before they are dating them. But once the tests are overcome with straight As and a woman is madly in love, that is TOTALLY over. She is not testing you anymore, she already sees you as the King. She is definitely not looking forward to destroy the image that makes her happy. And you should not be on “test-fighting” mood throughout your relationship, or you will destroy it. As a matter of fact, most tests inside a relationship require the opposite response. She is usually testing whether you are as commited to her as she is to you. Be a Man with her by leading, being protective and romantic and a provider and in bed; show the man you are in social situations or ones that require bravery, etc.. But do not respond to potential “tests” like you would with a girl you met in a bar, because she is not testing you anymore.
So it is silly to let yourself down because your lady told you her fantasy. Show her you desire her wildly, and fuck her harder while telling her her fantasy out loud. When she is, in fantasy, being fucked by the other guys, just tell her as you decide you cannot resist her anymore and just approach with such a look that the guys just move away in respect and then … fuck her harder. :-)
If your crotch is not hurting from all the banging in hers when you are done, you haven’t fucked her hard enough.
Cheers,
Rodinsky
You need to sit down and have a real heart-to-heart with this girl. . Things to consider are:
1) What if she likes it so much she wants it to become a regular thing? Can you handle it if it does become a regular thing? Does she want you to become involved in those trysts?
2) How would *she* feel if you were to tell her you wanted to fuck two girls in front of *her*? Would she react positively? {Probably she’d respond with a “Hit the road Jack, and don’t ya come home no mo’ no mo’ no mo’ no mo’.”)
Sit down and tell her your feelings, if she responds nonchalantly and doesn’t seem to care, well *NEXT* the bitch, unless you want to be a cuckold that she sees as a object, and has no respect for.
Ok… first of all. I suggest that all readers of this blog (re-)read those comments by: (in no particular order) wizardaway, drorganico, Marc, bjsebeck, ehrichweiss, Konsti, godzilla, Rachel (insightful!), Johannes.Pauw, BonePony, hottieblonde. To everyone (David Shade as #1): THANK YOU. I’ve not been in such a situation (yet), but I’ll arrive to similar situations in the future, in one way or another. As such, my conclusions on the subject are:
1) It does seem like the reader has some self-esteem issues which need to be adressed to regain a calm state of mind and heart, regardless of the outcome in this relationship: I expect the reader wants to move in a positive direction in sensuality/sexuality in his life, and as such needs to do some serious introspection to ascertain the (real or imagined) causes of his anxiety.
2) Perspective is EVERYTHING. If you choose (choose!) to feel angry, pass judgement upon a person who has opened up to you, etc. You need to understand why you feel those particular feelings.
3) In the book “The Mating Mind” (haven’t finished it yet) the author claims/proves that men AND women have been in a race since the dawn of time to pass their genes on to the next generation, for which they require a worthy and healthy recipient (i.e. a mate). As such, part of your – jealous – reaction may have been hardwired into you (as mentioned before on this blog), as perhaps her wanting to be with other men (to create a sperm war – See “Sperm wars” for more) BUT: her fantasy explicitly mentions YOU in the same room as her whilst she is having sex with two men, double penetration or otherwise.
4) Short aside: could you consider the possibility of being turned on – by her being double penetrated – so much that you either start to touch yourself in front of her, or that you give her the gift of your cock in her mouth whilst she’s taken from behind, or similar fantasies?
5) It seems that you’ve focused your learning of David Shade’s material on the “mechanical” side – i.e. techniques and such. Again, I strongly recommend you re-read his introductions of his products, in which he clearly outlines his idea of what “being a man” entails, and the mindset that this brings to your life.
6) I particularly liked the idea of calmly (!!!!!) discussing the fantasy with your woman, and getting to the bottom of the why. The how, when… would be for an other moment in time, if you so choose.
Now, to my more personal point of view: I’ve been spared such a situation in my life up to now, so I can not talk about your situation from personal experience. BUT, I took the time to vividly imagine my girlfriend answering that when I ask her for her deepest, darkest fantasy. My gut level reaction: I felt as if I wasn’t enough of a man to her. By reading comments by others on this blog and doing some serious introspection, I understood (albeit on mostly the rational level) that such an answer is an amazing gift. A truly amazing gift. Whilst in “ESO” (recommended by David Shade) communication is highly valued, I particularly would value the valour of telling the person you love your deepest, (darkest) fantasy. Becoming mentally so naked and trusting in another person requires courage and trust. Courage, because of the possibility of that fantasy going completely against the (moral) values of the other person, and thus risking alienating that person. Trust, on the level that she could become so naked to you, and trusting that you would not hurt or harm her when you heard her fantasy.
Whether she was shit-testing you or not is a bit outside the investigative scope of a written medium such as a blog or an email. As it has been said elsewhere: You have 100% control inside yourself – 0% outside yourself. Any idea of (total) “control” over something, someone, … is a delusion. (Even IF you could control somebody, that person would not be worthy of being in a relationship with a REAL MAN). Regardless, I’m certain that with all the comments and information so far and the critical editing/choosing by David Shade, a positive change will happen in your life.
Lastly, I want to congratulate you on taking action – without it, I would have been ignorant to your ordeal, and the insightful comments by many on your situation would not have come to fruition.
I sincerely hope that your life moves in a positive direction. Take care.
If your relationship and sex life with the girl is as good as you say,
I don’t see any reason to freak out with her fantasy.
She isn’t trying to hurt you, or trying to tell you something is missing in her sex life.
It’s just a fantasy, a conjunction between her sex drive and imagination, and she telling you about it means she deeply trusts you. The girl saw in you someone who could totally accept her desires as a woman (no matter how wild they are), not judging or being frightened and insecure by them.
Her reply to your reaction (“I’m just joking”) outlined your mistake: you shouldn’t
be jealous or angry at her fantasies, and consequently show this to her, because this would destroy the same foundation of trust that made her tell you about her secret thoughts in the first place.
The fact that she wants you to be there watching might mean she wants you to participate in her fantasy, that she wants to show you how sl*tty she is. Maybe she wants to be the porn star you drool over when you watch her being fucked.
What you need to do is to EXPLORE her fantasy and find out what elements in it arouses her so you can tap into the essence of them, without actually bringing 2 guys over to a hotel room to screw your girl.
Anyway, it’s just a fantasy, it doesn’t mean she wants it to happen for real.
As I said before, you shouldn’t be frightened by a fantasy. BUT it’s OK to be bothered by the actual event of your girl being fucked by two guys in front of you.
You shouldn’t feel that to fully satisfy her you should aim for one day to feel happy watching your girl being banged by someone else.
Some people may label you selfish, possessive, unconfident, or accuse you of not truly loving her for not going along with the fantasy, but it’s just something you WOULDN’T like to do.
“Forcing” yourself to act on the fantasy because you love her so much and want to please her, would backfire, and probably make you hate her, obviously destroying the relationship.
This is difficult to determine with the information provide, as I feel it could mean many things.
Things I’d like to know:
How long have you been together?
What, if can remember ,was your wording and vibe of this conversation, that brought up her reveal? And what was her tonality in response?
She could be testing you for a number of reasons. I feel if she was being honest about her fantasy, she is hoping you are as confident as she suspects. If it is an out and out test. She suspects you may not be.
At very least this is a break point for her. Based on your reaction, I see only one choice. Be true to your feelings while maintaining your strength. You can tell her you’ve thought about what she told you. You are impressed by her ability in allowing herself to share something so unconventional with you and while you wouldn’t want to deny her fulfilling her true fantasies, your connection to her pleasure is too strong to remove your self.
I feel if you maintain caring and composed while conveying these feelings to her, you will surely reveal the truth in her motive.
Good luck
Keep us posted
I think you’re a lucky guy, for several reasons:
to begin with, you’ve obviously established a relationship of trust & intimacy with her. she wouldn’t be that open with you, if you hadn’t. so congratulations on that. this is a deeply taboo fantasy and is actually common among women. but most of them would never reveal that to you, precisely because of the way you responded.
I think you are mistaken in your assessment of the situation, my friend. don’t feel angry or threatened about it. look at it for what it is — proof that she trusts you very much, enough to share with you one of her deepest, most secret fantasies. you should be flattered, if anything.
if it was me, I would be fine in helping her make that fantasy become a reality. I can’t imagine a hotter scene than my woman lost in the throes of ecstasy between 2 men who know how to treat her right.
keep in mind, her being with 2 men does not necessarily entail double penetration. or, maybe it does. you’d need to talk to her about it & flesh out the details a little more to know what her fantasy exactly is. maybe she just wants to be f*cked while she sucks the other guy off. it could mean a number of things. so don’t jump to conclusions about the DP, you need to get some clarification *without judgement*.
because it is so taboo, can you imagine how hot it would make a woman feel ? the fact that she wants you there is what makes it complete. keep in mind, she could easily find 2 men who’d be willing to have a threesome & you’d never be the wiser. but that isn’t the case here. she wants *you* to be there, to witness it all. it’s not the 2 men who will be driving her ecstasy into the red, it’s your presence that’ll be making the magic. don’t forget that.
you shouldn’t be so quick to make assumptions. she’s not “mocking” you, although it is understandable that you might think that. if she didn’t want to be with you, she’d split. you obviously have a very close, trusting and intimate relationship, and this fantasy is the fruit of that relationship. you’re actually very lucky.
also, I would remind you to look beyond the face value of this particular fantasy & take into consideration the other possibilities this might entail for you. if you indulge her in this fantasy, she is going to be inclined to repay you in spades, and happily. does your fantasy of having a threesome with 2 women while she watches, or even participates, become more of a possibility? could be. you need to focus on the positive, my friend.
your concerns are based on fear & insecurity. your response to her is the same reaction 95% of men would have. be the guy who is secure enough & interested enough in her pleasure to indulge her. she’s not going to want to lose a guy like you, if you did. a guy like that wouldn’t be easy to come by.
my main concern at this point, is how to salvage the damage you may have caused by reacting so negatively to such a rare and special thing. she may not feel as open with you as she did before. if it was me, I’d tell her that her fantasy was alot to take in at first, but after thinking about it, you’ve realized how hot it would be to watch that.
and who knows, you might find she’s not as interested in making it become a reality after all. but you will have proven that you trust her, you’re secure, & you’re a little on the wild side. not bad qualities to have in a relationship, from her perspective.
I say go for it. It’ll be a rare & beautiful thing to see, and you’ll be the man.
My main question is whether she actually wants it done in real life, or if it can be enacted as a fantasy scenario?
I would have to ask David Shade whether there is a way to determine which is the one she really wants. You could ask her, but if she said that its “just a fantasy” I would naturally be suspicious that she just wants to make him feel better.
I would actually love to play out such a fantasy for my girlfriend, as it really does turn me on. Its so ruthlessly sexual. But I don’t think I could go through with it in real life.
Moreover, if he unapologetically and from a position of strength and respect says that he would not do it, then could the relationship survive? From what I’ve read of David Shade’s material, I can’t help but think that at first she would be ok with it. But as time would go by she might come to resent him for denying her this fantasy, and might go behind his back to fulfill this desire. It seems to me that if (not from a position of low self-esteem of course) she genuinly wants this done in real life he has to break the relationship off so she can find herself a man who can fulfill this fantasy.
What worries me is that if one follows all of David Shade’s advice – makes a woman highly orgasmic, acting slvtty, and maybe even a threesome with a woman – then wouldn’t a woman wanting to be with another man simply be an almost guaranteed natural result of having opened up her sexuality so much? And a man, who is unable to fulfill this fantasy for her, would almost be technically punished for having opened up her fantasy like this.
Then again, compromise is always necessary in relationships. I would love to have my girlfriend watch me have sex with 5 women in front of her, but if she was not ok with it, I would be totally fine and move on, never having a problem with it. I would not sleep with women behind her back. Perhaps this man’s girlfriend should act the same way, by compromising and not obtaining EVERY fantasy she desires. Though I doubt David would agree with this.
The first step is to find out what she REALLY wants and WHY, though I don’t really know the bets wya to go about doing this in the proper way.
>…I’ve been able to give my woman the most beatiful experiences in sex and I’m
>pretty sure that she feels fullfilled because i’ve given her all kinds of strong
>orgasms wether it is stimulating her physically or mentally so regarding that part i
>have no worries…
We would have to closely evaluate the validity of your statement before moving along much further in this analysis; our male-sexual-egos tend to become disjointed after the first taste of true sexual “success”. You actually may be the superstar you’ve described, but there are a few things that make me wonder…
>…she would like to do it with two guys in front of me… … i’m writing you because
>it really freaked me out just the thought of it and it made me angry the fact that
>she fantazies with that…
It’s always best to not react negatively toward her fantasies. If your desire is for her to express herself sexually, you should applaud her no matter the fantasy. One of the greatest values of any fantasy is that it doesn’t need to happen in order to have a profound affect on her sexual psyche.
>…what is the reason of that…
It depends. There are an infinite number of possible explanations for her fantasy. SHE DESIRES BEING DESIRED is probably one. On a deeper psychological level, she believes she deserves to feel sexual and she wants to play a role where she is the sole focus of the sexual interaction. This is healthy. She doesn’t necessarily need, or even want, two men. Read a further explanation under a later question.
>…and to see if she was real about this…
Real about her desire to get tag-teamed by two men right in front of you? For the purpose of fantasy, of course it’s “real”; it’s real fantasy. Does she really want a DP? Again, it depends. Whether it’s true or not will remain uncertain. And more importantly, it doesn’t matter if she wants her fantasy to materialize. Just for fun, consider the following three possibilities:
1) She actually does want it to happen. Whether you’re cool with this or not, just give her a high five, let her know you feel close to her, then pin her down, squeeze her firmly and fuck her the way she deserves to be fucked.
2) She simply wants to openly discuss this particular scenario with someone she trusts and respects. She wants to get off from the closeness created by sharing a highly taboo fantasy. Again, just support her exploration. Make her feel natural and normal for her desires.
3) She set up a gauntlet for you to run through as a means to assess your sexual mettle. If this is the case, you failed. She probably loathes your sexual ignorance and you are grounded. More on this later.
>…because when she saw that it made me angry she said she was joking, but i
>don’t think she was…
You’re right. She was NOT joking. And if she needed to lie and say she was joking, she backpedaled so as to save both of you from further embarrassment. This has created a very slippery slope because she now thinks that you view her as A slut, not YOUR slut. Getting angry has forever set you back and it certainly eroded her respect for you. And furthermore, your reaction had a profound negative influence upon the structure of her fantasy. You corrupted her liberation.
>… i mean if a woman loves to have one cock inside wether it is in her pussy or her
>butt it is logical that she would love to have the two of them at the same time, i
>can understand that…
Based on this comment alone, it’s my opinion that you DO NOT understand. This is not logical at all. It’s lazy thinking.
>…i just can’t figure out the reason of why she would love to do it in front of me,
>what kind of sick thing is that?…
I have two comments for this:
1) a. The first reason she wanted to do this in front of you (and tell you about it) is because she LIKED you. It was a story involving you and her inner sexuality. She shared very private information with you. She valued you enough to take a risk. See how that was a display of affection toward you?
b. The second reason she wanted to do this in front of you is because she craves the mental rush that results from a highly unbalanced power relationship established through role-playing, as I mentioned earlier. The essential component is not actually being double stuffed, or even to have intercourse; it’s the knowledge that one person has complete control over the other; in this case it would be she over you (and she over the other two woodsmen). In the end, it’s really nothing more than intentional manipulation of the mind. The brain is the greatest erogenous zone. And this type of objectification can have potent results. She is FORCED to become completely sexual. She wants to be objectified and used and desired for her raw sexuality and feminine assets. This enables her to feel like a purely sexual object. It’s empowering.
2) The second part of your comment is very telling. You committed the critical sin of judging her. If she discovers that you consider her fantasies “sick”, she’ll be done with you quite quickly. In fact, she’s likely fucking other men right now (probably not two at the same time… but it’s possible).
>…Would she love to watch me get jealous…?
No. If she’s a good woman, she doesn’t want you to get jealous. She wants you to cherish her without being insecure and possessive about it. She wants you to be a MAN who supports and endorses her sexual expression.
>…would she love to watch how i get when i watch her being taken by two guys?…
I doubt she got that far along in her fantasy before you crushed it. Remember, it’s HER fantasy. She’s thinking about what she’s feeling. You should be moving right along with her while she expresses this. If you’re not driving the fantasy, she may not be thinking about you very much anyway and you have to understand and accept that. If she notices your ability to go with the flow, it can go a very long way. You have done the opposite.
>…Would she love to hurt me that way…?
I’ll answer this by asking you a question:
Does your relationship have a foundation of mutual trust and respect?
If you answer with “yes”, then the answer to your question is a resounding “NO, she doesn’t want to hurt you”.
If you answer with “I don’t know”, then the answer is “yes, she might want to hurt you.”
If you answer with “no”, then none of this matters and the discussion should cease and be reopened under another topic.
>…i’ve heard that the whole fact of women cheating is more like a fantasy they all
>have, that they find pleasure in the act of making fun of their partner and not in the
>act of sex itself and that they would love to do it in front of their man…
I never neglect the fact that female psychology is elusive, highly complex and sometimes obscure and I can understand why you’re puzzled. But your analysis is buried in inaccuracy and it’s apparent that you grasp onto conclusions that do nothing but undermine female sexuality. This form of mental self-destruction will ensure the hasty departure of any good woman. You need to restructure your mind frame.
>…I really hope you can help me to understand this because it’s driving me nuts…
YOU are driving YOURSELF nuts.
>…and right now i don’t see her the way i used to….
She doesn’t see you the way she used to, either. You encouraged her to express herself and when she did, you pulled the carpet out from under her. I’ll bet $5 she feels cheated and resentful.
>…I want to make clear that i don’t have any hang-ups on sex…
OK, I have to call bullshit here. You DO have hang-ups. Recall this: “… it really freaked me out just the thought of it and it made me angry…”
This sounds like a hang-up to me. Freaking out is not the calm, cool and collected reaction that I associate with sexual liberation.
>…and i don’t judge it [sex] in any way,…
You DO judge it, heavily. Please recall this part: “…but i just can’t figure out why she would love to do it in front of me, what kind of sick thing is that?…”
As I indicated previously, your use of the word “sick” is in fact an uncensored judgment.
>…in other words i don’t have any kind of trouble with it and that’s why i’ve been
>able to satisfy her completely but i believe is just kind of logical that this whole
>situation affects me, i mean, no real man would like to see his woman being
>fucked by another man, specially by two and no real man would like that his
>woman finds pleasure in it…
This is a tragic cascade of wild blanket statements which articulate to me that you are truly misinformed and confused about this subject. You are “in over your head” with this girl; cut your losses.
However, all is not lost for you. I’m sure you’re sharp because you expressed yourself incredibly well considering English is probably not your first language. Use your melon and diligently study EVERYTHING Mr. Shade has written. Implement the material slowly with your next girlfriend, pay very close attention to her on all levels and fire your drunken autopilot.
I still love you.
S. Stone
I believe its totally fine, for her to have this fantasy. after reading the book nancy’s forbiden garden, where the author, brings down different fantasy’s women experiance. there is no question that this is a normal type of women fantasy. she unlike most women opened her fantasy up to you, which is a great thing. I am certain for sure that she would never want this fantasy in real life only with you. During $ex this fantasy is what she is experiancing in order to enhance her plesure, thats just the way women are, so dont worry about it. and use her fantasy to your total advantage.
You’re okay with her fantasizing about fucking two guys at once, but you’re freaked at her wanting to do it right in front of you. Well, okay, you’re mature enough to realize that women have FAR wilder sex fantasies than we men have traditionally given them credit for. And this is a good solid wild fantasy, but with a twist: she wants you to watch her in action, and that puts splinters in your brain. My friend, your reaction is completely wrong-headed, and here’s why:
Consider first the fantasy itself: fucking two guys at once. This is a staple image in porn, of course, and there’s a reason for it. A woman who’s getting it on with two guys can’t possibly be doing it for the intimacy, the connection, the sense of two (oops, three) souls meeting as one, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. In other words, a woman who fucks two studs at once reveals herself as a wild, wanton, cock-hungry sexual outlaw, and that’s the kind of woman lots of guys want to watch (and fuck) and lots and lots of very nice girls want to BE.
So your girlfriend fantasizes herself to be a cock-hungry wanton slut, the kind of woman so eager for dick she opens herself to two guys at once. And you’re not really okay with that. But you’re forgetting something: she wants to be that way FOR YOU. She wants you there watching so that you can experience her in a whole new way. She wants to be YOUR sexual outlaw, your wild wanton woman; she wants to perform for YOU. Far from being “sickâ€, her fantasy indicates her utter devotion to you, her eagerness to please YOU. The proof for this statement? Imagine if she fantasized about doing it with two guys when you’re NOT around. Then she’s simply fucking around on you, without your informed consent, and betraying you like a lying two-faced whore.
Your girl is the farthest thing from a whore. She wants you there, my friend! She wants to please you! And just imagine what happens between the two of you when the two guys leave her and you’re alone with her. She’ll let you know whose woman she is, who she belongs to. I predict that would be the best sex you’ll ever have.
I’m not saying go ahead and make the fantasy real. These things are hard to do right, and often have emotional aftereffects. But why not understand and be grateful for the remarkable woman who is your girlfriend? Play with the fantasy, both of you together, have fun with it, talk about, fuck about it, have a good time together.
Buddy, you have an amazing girlfriend. Don’t let her go! There’ll be plenty of guys out there who’ll appreciate what she has to offer. Relax, and enjoy it. Enjoy HER. Okay?
Troubadour
If you’re feeling jealous I wouldn’t blame ya, I’m sure I’d feel the same way if a chick I think I truly love (at the time) wanted to bang two dudes in front of me. Just keep in mind the deeper you draw out her inner slut, the more slutty she’s going to want to get. Tis the tradeoff for unshackling the chains of repression inside your woman. Here’re some options you have tho:
1) I’d say something like “You know what sweetie, at first I was jealous when you told me about xxx fantasy, but I’m going to let you do it. It’s going to be extra special. We’re going to have an orgy. You can fuck two guys that *I* pick and I’m going to fuck two girls, you’re picking them both with my final approval. We’ll all be in the same room so we can make sure we’re safe and we can look into each other’s eyes knowing we’re in a different world, blah blah”
Or if you have balls of steel and some cash, heres an addendum to that idea:
Have some sort of camera/webcam or something in two seperate rooms on a projector screen, that way you can both watch each other fulfill your fantasies while living your own. Make sure she understands that the camera must remain exposed and running the whole time, and that you have the final say as to what does and doesn’t happen.
Check out craigslist and xpeeps to find participants.
2) Let her know she can do that, as long as she goes out with you and picks up women with you to share. Then when it comes time to let her fuck two other dudes, say something like “Baby, I don’t mind sharing you to fulfill your fantasy. I’m calling the shots and I’ll be participating as well. I’m picking the dudes and I’ll watch as well as participate. You’ll be disciplined for being such a filthy slut by getting stuffed by three cavemen. It’ll be a blast!”
Then see if any of her gfs are down to be in on the fun. Basically it’d be 3-4 dudes running train on 2-3 chicks.
If you’re going to have random dudes off the internet or the street fuck your chick as opposed to your bros, make sure they rubber up and make sure you have access to a decent weapon like a gun or a ninja sword (yes, ninja sword) just in case shit gets hairy.
I can’t think of anything else. Let her do her thing, just make sure you’re included in it so that you retain your dominance. If you don’t let her she’ll find a way of doing it behind your back, which will be worse because you have no control over what she’s doing, and she’ll dump you first. You may as well let her and appropriately demote her gf status.
A lot of people are saying that you have to be an ‘exceptional man’ to allow your woman to do something like this. Obviously that is only true according to the right context. If one of your main goals in life was to expertly fulfill any and all sexual fantasies of a chosen woman, then you might go through with it and be exceptional in that regard.
But thats all. Don’t be so naive to think that you are wrong to disregard your own ethics for what someone else wants. Be exceptional and have a backbone and stand up for what you want and what you don’t. Ultimately it’s about what kind of relationship YOU want, and what kind of woman you want.
And no, you should not get angry with her and accuse her of being a slut for saying it. She just wants something different than you (if not doing it is what you truly want). If it is something that she really wants and you feel she does not match with who you are, then who cares?
Again, being a ‘MAN’ doesn’t have anything to do with being ok OR not being ok with your woman having sex with other guys. If your in a relationship that isn’t what you want, then you need to be a man and go out and get it.
Are you kidding me? I guess you gotta figure out what you want. Do you want a whore for a gf and you can freely bang any chick you want and she’ll be cool with it. If you let her do this you definitely need to get her to let you bang her and one of her super hot friends, if she has any. I would scratch this and dump her,she sounds like adirty whore, there are more wholesome women out there.
Do you have any of David’s materials? If not you need to get them. If so you need to go back STUDY them and take notes!
You had a great opportunity to leverage her fantasy to provide both of you with mind blowing sex that very night. Get her naked on your bed and start narrating a fantasy.
“Oh baby, you are so naughty for wanting to fuck two guys and have me watch, but it makes me VERRRY excited. And it makes you sooo wet and excited to watch me jack-off my hard cock as you’re getting fucked hard. You’re a dirty little bitch for wanting two, HARD, throbbing cocks inside you at the same time.”
At this point start slide a well lubricated finger in and out of her ass.
“Baby, show them how good of a FUCK you are. Show them how hard you can COME. Come, come like a good little girl, come now! Come hard!”
You get the idea. She has given you a nice open loop to work with. Don’t worry about her running out and finding two guys to fuck her because she has a FANTASY. USE that fantasy in her favor. Remember that a woman’s orgasm has a huge mental aspect to it. It is not neccessary to physically act it out. It can remain a fantasy. Just intensify it and make it more powerful. Think how much she’ll enjoy you engaging her on that level. And when the fantasy is over YOU will be the one she associates with her continued pleasure. I mind read that you wouldn’t mind having her watch you fuck two girls. I know I wouldn’t mind my girl watching me. Remember weird, freaky fantasies are NORMAL and healthy. They are NOT a sign that she is going to cheat on you. Once again, all the answers are in David’s materials so re-read and STUDY them and then put the technologies into practice. I can’t remember where, but in one of his materials David says how exciting it is to watch his woman get fucked by another guy, the look on her face as she’s getting off, etc. Remember, it’s all about giving HER pleasure in an atmosphere of mutual respect.
Brandon Joki
In the past couple of years, I’ve learned so much from David that any response I could give to any sexual question would be at least somewhat grounded in his way of seeing things. I look forward to what he has to say on this topic. To my mind however, you need to take a step back and reassume control of your life and relationship. I have three suggestions.
First, if you don’t want this fantasy to become a reality, simply declare that. If a gay man told you that he has always fantasized about you and he’d like to make it a reality, you’d turn him down by polite refusal or maybe a solid punch to the jaw. What’s the difference here? You don’t have any value attached to the gay man… you seem to have all your value attached to her. Stop that! It’s a simple smile and a “Never gonna happen babe, but if you need a few minutes to masturbate I can go take a shower†and the fantasy has passed like finger-food you don’t like on the tray of a walking waiter.
Second, don’t take her fantasy personally and don’t analyze it to death. The fantasy likely has nothing to do with you, any more than your fantasies about – pick your dirtiest one – have anything to do with her. It is merely a reflection of her deepest sexual drives and make-up, tailored for her imagination based on feelings, not reason.
For the same reason, your analysis of why why WHY-DAMMIT! she has this fantasy is understandable but hopeless, and potentially damaging. It’s like watching a child dancing and playing in the rain, trying to freeze it, and understand the mechanics behind it. Not only do you drain the potentially beautiful passion from the moment, you run the risk of killing the moment entirely. Play along, dance along, and if you can’t enjoy it, at the very least observe it. Don’t crystallize it with logic. A good stock broker doesn’t use emotions to figure out the logic of the market. A good lover doesn’t use logic to figure out the emotions of sex.
Third, stepping back into the situation, make the most out of it. You have two choices. Satisfy your ego, get angry, break up with her, and rekindle the friendship with your forearm. Or satisfy her, let her immerse herself in the fantasy while you blow her mind with David’s techniques, and see where it goes.
It won’t go anywhere negative. Maybe she’ll explore deeper the part of her sexuality that’s triggered this fantasy, and discover other fantasies that turn you on as well. Maybe she sensed this jealous, insecure side of you and she was just testing it all along – in which case you will have passed with flying colors. Maybe she will enjoy the experience and then move on from it like a satisfied craving. Or maybe she will become attached to it and demand that you make it real for her – in which case (presupposing you’re still averse to the fantasy) you move on from her, accepting her as she is, accepting yourself as different, and appreciating the relationship you’ve had.
I write this email with sympathy, and any guy that tells you he wouldn’t feel a pang of jealousy if his girl said that is full of it. But transcend that impulse of the ego and man up. Don’t let your relationship suffer for your own insecurities, and don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Good luck bro!
- Dan S, 20, NY
Those are perversions of pain – to you.
You really should consider that do you want to share yourself with woman whose respect and intrest level are that low?
Think about it, would she ever fantasize about two anonymous guys, if her interest level were high? If she was with Brad Pitt, George Clooney etc. would she fantasize about things like that?
No.
And definetly you shouldn’t expect to hear anything like that from your woman – I think.
Yea yeah, she trusts you, but in that case she’s not too smart.
So, now you can live with fear that she will make those fantazies real, or that she won’t – then it’s ok, if you can deal with her secret wish.
Or maybe, you tell her that she can have her fantasy, but you’re out to find someone who really is a TRUE woman and worth of your time.
Then NEXT her and walk away. This will, btw, raise her interest level and respect.
So you should talk with her, and dig deeper to find out what is it all about, but remember my advice.
To hell with that bullshit that you should take any shit from woman, just to be her sexpuppy!
You should give it to her only if she deserves it.
Know your value man!
First of – congratulations on satisfying your woman so well. One can really read it off your letter.
The way I see it, what actually happens is a very good thing, which you are taking the wrong way. Let me clarify: What she is doing is sharing a fantasy with you. What this means is that she feels deeply intimate with you, and she trusts you. She feels that you´ve opened up her sexuality, and she feels comfortable to extend the boundaries.
I would have to guess from this point on. Here’s my take on it: Your woman is a very visual person. It really turns her on, if you find her sexy while you are having sex with her. I won’t be surprised, if she enjoys it very much to masturbate in front of you, and gets very excited if you like what you see. So her telling you, she wants to be taken by two guys in front of you is her wish to perform for you even more.
What you don’t see is – this fantasy is not about the other two guys – it’s about you. It’s about you getting incredibly aroused by her having a threesome. Without you this fantasy is worthless. You obviously share deep intimacy, and that’s why she wants YOU to watch her, and not just anybody. She wants YOU to share this moment, otherwise it’s not as arousing. People who share such a deep intimacy want to make their fantasies reality WITH their partner, otherwise they are not that arousing.
The root of you not seeing this is your insecurity. You feel rejected, because she doesn’t want you to penetrate her, but just to watch. And this makes you incredibly jealous. You start thinking logicaly about it, and can’t understand how she could even consider something like this. And believe me – I know where you’re coming from. It won’t be a turn on for me either to watch my women get fucked by two guys. But that’s all there is to it – it’s just not a turn on. If she shares a fantasy with you, it doesn’t mean that you should do exactly what she tells you. It’s normal not to be turned on by EXACTLY the same thing. BUT you can use the clues she is giving you to your advantage. For instance her wish for you to watch her perform FOR YOU. You can incorprate it in you sex life, by talking to her, when you have sex, how much it turns you on to watch her do X an Y for you (replace X and Y accordingly), and how sexy it is. I hope you see what I mean.
I hope this helped you see, that what your woman is telling you is actually a very good thing. You have really something special going on there, and you are about to destroy it, by taking it the wrong way. Don’t be jealous, just transform her fantasy into something, that you both like and enjoy it. Or if you care to make HER fantasy real for her – use hypnosis. She will thank you for it.
best regards,
IJ, Bulgaria
P.S. Excuse me for possible errors in my text, I’m not a native speaker.
I think its natural for you to feel a bit hurt or threatened if your women tells you that she fantasizes about doing it with other guys. It doesn’t take much intelligence to realise that if a women is going to be unfaithful to you, its first going to start off as a fantasy in her mind. However, you need to put things into perspective. Everyone has fantasies. Fantasies serve an important purpose and they are a normal and essential component to the human sexual drive. Even if you ditch this girl, your next girlfriend will have fantasies too. Some girls might be to afraid to share their fantasies, but they still have them. So either you can feel threatened or hurt by them and bury your head in the sand and deny their existence or you can be a man and rise above that… and learn to harness their power. Used in the right way, fantasies can be used as a tool to empower your women, increase her responsiveness to you and provide her with even greater sexual pleasure. Instead of seeing fantasies as a threat, learn to view them as the fuel that fires up her passion and sexual drive.
In this reply, I will suggest 2 approaches on how to deal with her fantasies. First, I will suggest a way of leveraging her fantasies to give her more pleasure and to associate those feelings with you. Second, if you still feel threatened or uncomfortable with her fantasies, I will suggest a few things that you can do to control her thought processes during sex so that you limit the opportunity for her to have those fantasies while she is having sex with you.
1. Leverage her fantasies.
————————————–
This approach basically involves leveraging her fantasies to get her into a heightened state of sexual arousal. Once you have her in that state you can link the feeling she feels (and the orgasm) to yourself. There are a few steps to this process:
1. Make her feel safe – You need to make her feel safe and comfortable to share with you all the details of her fantasies. In your post you said that you were angry and hurt when she told you her fantasy. This kind of breaks her trust with you. She will be to afraid to tell you all the details of her fantasies because she will worry that you will judge her and get upset. So you have a lot of damage control to do. You need to build up that trust again. You need to make her feel safe and secure and comfortable. You need to reassure her that its safe for her to share this part of herself with you.
2. Elicit the key states that the fantasy induces – Once she feels safe with you, you need to explore her fantasies in detail. You need to probe into her fantasy and find out how and why it excites her. You need to understand how and why the fantasy pushes her hot buttons. You need to know what her hot buttons are. You need to get in touch with the feelings that this fantasy produces in her. Maybe the feeling of being submissive to the raw masculity of 3 guys excites her, maybe it excites her to see you powerless and jealous, you need to ask her. A few quetions that you can ask her are: “what is it about this fantasy that excites you?”; “How would you feel if you were looking into my eyes while you were getting f*cked by two other guys?” ; “what do you feel when you think of this fantasy?” ; “what do you think I would be feeling while I watched you being f*cked by two guys?” , “what do you think of just before you cum?” etc. These are just suggestions, think of some other questions to uncover what excites her about the fantasy.
3. – Set some boundaries – I take it from your post that you want a monogomous relationship with this women. Let her know that you require monogomy and faithfulness from her. Let her know that its okay to share in your deepest most erotic fantasies together in the context of giving each other increased pleasure in a monogomous relationship… i.e. let her know that you want to use fantasies to deepen the love, intimacy and connection between you. If she loves you and respects you, she will want this too.
4. – Build a state of peak sexual arousal in her by by feeding her fantasies back to her during sex – In this step you need to use her fantasies to bring her to the point of excruiciating pleasure. Repeat her fantasy back to her during sex in just the way she likes it. Make good use of the information you gathered in step 2. Take your time in building up a peak state of sexual arousal in her. It may be helpful to use a blindful to increase her focus on your voice and your touch. Once she is in that peak state of sexual pleasure, you need to alter her fantasy in such a way that the climax of the fantasy is when she finally gives herself to YOU. In other words, you use the fantasy to get her to feel completely aroused, but you want to associate a feeling of surrender or of “giving herself to you” to the climax and orgasm.
5. Use David Shades Orgasm on Command technique – Once she is at that climactic point… the point where she has given herself to you in the fantasy… you can try prolonging the climax for awhile. In step 2 she would have told you what feelings the fantasy arouses in her. In the climax, just before she orgasms, make her feel like YOU are the one giving those feelings to her. For example, lets say the fantasy turns her on because the feeling of surrendering herself to the raw masculinity of 2 guys” turns her on. You can feed that back to her while you f*ck her by say things like, (amongst other dirty talk) “You love the feeling of surrendering yourself to my raw masculinity, don’t you?”, “I am f*cking you harder than 2 guys can ever fuck you”. Use her words. Feed them back to her during dirty talk.
Then finish off using David Shades orgasm on command technique so that she associates the orgasm to you.
2. Direct her thoughts during sex.
———————————————–
If her fantasies cause too much anxiety in you. You can bypass them by directing her thoughts during sex.
The key is to make it interactive so that you can be sure she is listening to you and not engrossed in a fantasy in her mind e.g. if you f*ck her, use dirty talk, make it interactive by using questions like, “You like it when I f*ck you like a slut, don’t you?” . David Shade has heaps of material on how you can direct her thoughts during sex. Basically, as you touch her, describe the feelings you want your touch to induce e.g. as you are stimulating her clit you can describe to her how the feeling turns her on… ignites her passion..and makes her feel connected to you… etc. Lace your words with NLP e.g. “as I am rubbing your clit, you might find yourself feeling this burning desire deep inside you… this desire that makes you want to feel my masculinity penetrating you deep inside.
Try exploring her fantasies like I mentioned in Step 2 of my previous suggestion. This way you an find out what her hot buttons are, what feelings turn her on etc. Use that as you your speech as you guide her thoughts.
The key thing here is to guide her thoughts so that you minimize her inclination to fantasize. You get the idea?
Friend, it’s all about giving women incredible pleasure. My comment will seem unconventional (read misguided to most guys uncomfortable with their own masculinity). Here goes anyway. If that’s the way she wants her pleasure, help her have it. I would find it terribly exciting and erotic to watch my partner having sex with two guys — especially if they knew what they were doing and were giving her incredible pleasure. Women are not property. They do not belong to a man any more than a man belongs to them. It’s an arrangement where both parties get something in the relationship — everybody wins. If a woman says she wants to be intimate with someone and if you agree there is nothing wrong with her doing so in my book. Being present while she is experiencing incredible pleasure is a shared experience between the two of you. It’s a gift that you can give her — the gift of understanding and accepting her need for fulfillment in that way. It’s very loving and very sexy. It will strengthen the bond between you believe it or not — assuming you don’t have hangups about her enjoying herself.
If she does it behind your back, that’s a breach of trust and an entirely different matter. That will damage (or destroy) the relationship. One last thought. You can’t wear it out — I’ve tried. You should be able to enjoy her sexually even more because she has experienced more of it herself. She will be a better lover and if you can get your head around it, you will have a new appreciation of her as a sexual partner. Incidentally, you are to be commended on establishing a comfort level for her where she feels safe sharing her fantasies with you..
Dear ANONYMOUS,
YOU feel BAD about your woman’s fantasies.
I got news …
YOU got the PROBLEM.
What you should do is reframe the situation.
REALIZE that YOUR WOMAN TRUST YOU enough to tell you her darkest fantasies.
YOU ARE LUCKY! Be strong and open minded, DO NOT JUDGE HER, she has a right to her own dreams (Doesn’t mean you have to follow). APPRECIATE THE PRESENT and how lucky you are that your woman is clear and straight forward with you.
Think about it, YOU HAVE TO BE CONFIDENT enough to feel like your woman always wants and needs to HAVE YOU BEING THE ALPHA LEADER.
El Arcangel
PS.
FUCK THE PRICE!
David, forgive my sloppy answer but is 4:00 am and I just came home from having few drinks with some friends.
It will be a pleasure to meet you and share thoughts (I separated from my wife and best friend of 6 years recently).
I been doing some strong inner work but I feel defeated anyways.
First off, this is not at all an unusual fantasy. Women quite often have gang bang, rape, or other similar fantasies, some of which are quite extreme. Feel glad that she trusts you enough to reveal such ’socially inappropriate’ things to you, she clearly trusts you a lot. Don’t freak out, or she’ll pull back and you’ll have a bitch of a time ever getting that level of trust in the future.
Second, if you were considering doing this, understand that there’s a difference between sex and love. You can have plenty of sex completely devoid of emotional context, and enjoy many loving relationships where there’s no sex involved. In a fantastical situation like that, she probably doesn’t even have faces attached to the men who would do her. The chances of her wanting to throw you over for these two anonymous guys is nil (unless your relationship is weak… unlikely, given the trust she has in you by sharing this fantasy!)
Third, and admittedly this is a bit of a mercenary way to look at it… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, my friend. You’d be setting the foundation for a much more lively sexual life. Again, you’d need to work on separating the physical from the emotional, but when you do believe me your life will be a very fun place. ;)
HTH.
~ Rick
Thanks BP for pointing out my ‘error’: yes, it is hurt by her (not hurted) – one day I will master English as a second language.
What I meant: the guy felt hurt – I’m not saying she intentionally wanted to hurt him – the outcome was him being hurt – so, being sincere can be painfull – she (presumably…) opened up and he freaked out – I called it ‘testing him’, whereas most of the comments refer to her being sincere and confiding in him – I guess I was too harsh on her – ah well, so much to learn…
I’ve hit this thread late enough that it’s probably already stale, but I thought it was interesting enough to warrant a reply. I’ll skip over the writing style of the letter, and stick with the specifics of the situation.
Anyway: of course she was telling the truth. As for whether she’d like to see the fantasy happen, that’s hard to say; from the circumstances I suspect the answer is “Yes, as long as it wouldn’t destroy the relationship or end in negative consequences in some other way”.
The letter-writer has screwed the pooch in a variety of ways; damage control may still be possible at this stage, but I wouldn’t put money on it. So, his mistakes:
Mistake One: He wasn’t careful what he asked for
If you are a sensible person, you don’t walk down dark streets in dangerous cities at night without facing the possibility that you might be mugged. You don’t go out in the sun all day without accepting that you might get burned. You don’t order cheesecake and expect it to be non-dairy.
Exactly the same principle dictates that you should not ask a woman what her sexual fantasies are without expecting to hear, AMONG OTHER THINGS, about her having her orifices crammed with dick of possibly dubious origin. That’s just the way it goes. The fact that he jumped into the deep end of the pool when he wasn’t ready to swim should not be considered to reflect negatively on his woman, nor should her fantasies; judging people for what turns them on is, really, little more than a cruel joke.
So, the poster’s woman mistakenly did what he claimed he wanted by sharing her fantasy – a monumental act of trust. But that’s not what he really wanted, because…
Mistake Two: His expectations were unclear and his messages were mixed
These two quotes really say it all -
“it really freaked me out just the tought of it and it made me angry the fact that she fantazies with that…”
“I want to make clear that i don’t have any hang-ups on sex and i don’t judge it in any way”
So. The Anonymous Poster wanted to make it clear to his woman that he doesn’t have hang-ups (which he does), or judge her (which he ALSO does). This is, understandably, difficult. In effect he is either asking “David, how do I lie to my woman and myself?” or “David, how do I get over my issues?” — and I’d be more inclined, reading his letter, to say he’s leaning toward the former than the latter.
In effect, he set a double bind for his woman by asking the question at all – a relationship situation in which multiple conflicting and sometimes impossible demands are made. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind) Something like the following:
Tell me your fantasies [but don't tell me things that will disturb me, like a fantasy about doing other men in front of me] [but tell me the truth] – an impossible demand for her to satisfy. In fact, the only thing that says to me that the poster was doing something RIGHT in the first place is the fact that his woman responded to this by doing what he said he wanted in the first place; a serious risk -precisely- because it can create the kind of situation that it did.
In the future, she will presumably know better than to give him things he says he wants.
Mistake Three: He has no faith in his woman or himself
When the poster finds out that his woman has a fantasy involving other men, he IMMEDIATELY assumes that the appeal of it is that it hurts him; he provides no actual reason why he assumes this of all possible motivations is the case.
This kind of says it all -
“i just can’t figure out the reason of why she would love to do it in front of me, what kind of sick thing is that? Would she love to watch me get jealous, would she love to watch how i get when i watch her being taken by two guys? Would she love to hurt me that way? because i’ve heard that the whole fact of women cheating is more like a fantasy they all have, that they find pleasure in the act of making fun of their partner”
It seems to me that he has some deep underlying issues with both women and his own self-worth; the fact that this possibility even registers seriously in his mind (nevermind that it’s the FIRST thing he thinks of) says to me that this is what he unconsciously expects – that women fantasize sexually about mocking and hurting men.
I would advise him to start by reading a book like My Secret Garden by Nancy Friday, to get a feel for what womens’ fantasies are actually like. After that, I would suggest that he try to imagine other reasons that his woman might be interested in it.
I would NOT advise him to explore this fantasy with his woman, because he isn’t ready to handle it and if he claims to the obvious lie would be destructive to whatever trust remains between them sexually after his stumble.
-Hitori
Umm…dunno for sure, but this guy may actually be my BBT–or he was at the time. The date is right for what we were discussing last summer and he does write “hurted” for “hurt” and does spell “thought” as “tought”….
Anyways, he never said to me what he said in this email. He acted as if he was all cool with it or something. But after, he changed. He even said once that he didn’t think of me the way he used to and no longer had “sentimental” feelings for me. He asked me to give a hand job to his best friend, and later wanted me to give him a bj…in each case while he watched. He basically started treating me as a masturbation aid.
So we’ve drifted apart…big duh! He doesn’t have a new girlfriend. I’ve moved on.
Moral: Don’t ask if you really don’t want to know.
You need to call her bluff. Take her up on the offer to see her getting f**k by two guys while you watch. This way, she can enjoy her fantasy and you can prove to her that she does not control you, that your happiness does not depend on her fidelity. Also, encourage her to make fun of you while she does the deed for further benefits to your ego. Remember: your happiness and self-worth comes from within and not from any other person, especially a woman. See this as a spiritual exercise, perhaps a painful one, but one that you need. Apparantly, your karma has brought you to this place. Now you need to live it.
Dude maybe she was just trying to see if you cared for her?Anyways if your using Shades material you should be fine when it comes to satisfying her, after all in the end a fantasy is a fantasy just remember your in control of her sex life so if you dont want to indulge her dont.
Actually I feel sorry for him. He should now realize that he picked the wrong partner. She hurt him and he will never recover. He will never be able to trust her either. He needs to dump her now!
Sex and love are two different things. Her fantasy is mostly a sexual one rather emotional. The sexual part is that she craves to be taken like the little slut she is, lose all inhibition and just let go in a sexual carnage. Both holes filled are better than one. The emotional part is that she wants you to be there to share this, to be close to her when she experiences the fulfillment of hedonism.
You are trying to explain a sexual fantasy using logic like every man would. However you need to step back and detach yourself especially emotionally. It’s about sexual pleasure, it’s physiological feelings. The fact that she shared it with you shows how close she is with you. And all women have similar fantasies. They don’t tell them because of the categorization of slut. So accept her insatiable sexual character and understand what a fantasy is. Don’t be invested too emotionally in her fantasies. Be the guy who can make her experience immense pleasure and associate it to you.
There is no way to be emotionally invested in a relationship and not to get hurt by such female fantasy. This said, all women feel like that so there’s a change of frame for you there.
This for starters
Thats great your women express her fantasies to him. But every masterfullover has a limit. It can be watching her women be fucked by 2 guys or it cant be watching her women get fucked by 2 guys. But its great she told you. Also that your doing it correct because you HAVE to be in her fantasy. If she was getting fucked buy 2 guys without you even knowing or being there then thats were you have problems. But the point that you have to be there for her to get off shows that your doing things correct. But if there is a fantasy she has that you don’t to act out. Then at night use it for story time and narrate the fantasy wile your playing with her as she cums so hard for you. But if you do then you can watch her and tell her to show you how hard she can get fucked by two cocks like the slut that she is and show me how fuckin hard you can cum for you. But this fantasy in particular is one I would obligee and even if you do it. Then next time she can watch you fuck a girl doggy style wile she’s eating another girl out :-). Thats something she would enjoy also watching you fuck two women as she stands there hopeless. By the way you should use a higher case “i”.
It’s interesting that the fantasy is that she is being fucked by two other guys WHILE HE IS PRESENT. Not behind his back. I think part of it is she wants his dominant masculine presence there to make it ’safe’. Being DPed is a very extreme, potentially scary experience. If he is there to direct and control the other males, then the context is that it is happening under his control.
And as others have pointed out, it doesn’t have to happen for real.
Your lucky i say let her do it i wish my gf would want to do that it would turn me on to see her get pleasured by two guys